Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I had a tiny (think McD's basic hamburger in the states) burger at T-Terrace that was very pricey and borderline inedible. Contrast that with a pricey, but very large, very tasty Angus burger I ate at Pecos Bill's in October (with a fixings bar too) and MK wins this battle by a landslide. >>> I hear you on that. That MK burger is more like a steakhouse hamburger, especially with the fixings bar. TDL hamburgers all seem to be like your basic theme park hamburger lifted right out of the 80's. Spirit, one thing you missed because of year of your visit: the menchi katsu burger at Tomorrowland Terrace. Now that was some serious yum-yum. menchi katsu is kind of like hamburger, except it also has ground pork in it, is breaded then deep fried, and served with plum sauce on top. Then they put it in a Mickey-shaped bun and added shredded cabbage and you ate it like a hamburger. I would have two of them every time. And, at the time, it was served at the only counter service location with Diet Coke! I was really disappointed when they took it off the menu. It's probably one of the few cases where I'd say TDL dumbed something down.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>That's just it, EE. There are NO transitions. You want to know how you've changed lands? Simply look down and the pavement color will have changed. That's really it. There's no flow. You just go a few steps from Fantasyland and you are in Critter Country or Tomorrowland.<<< Yeesh. Can't foresee that being too good for the park. >>Mansion has looked great the past two years, no doubt about it. But PoC? I'll have to see that to believe it. << See it. I'm really hoping that it's not a fluke. I'm thinking not, seeing that things actually SOUNDED good. That's a sign of tweaking with the tech. Remember when they did that with SSE in 05? >>> Actually, restrooms while clean generally weren't as adorned with things like the themed tile as you see at WDW. And it's only cultural to a point, go to McD's and you can get HUGE burgers just like the USA. So, it may play a factor, but the OLC wanting to make as much as it can on F&B plays a larger one, methinks.<<< WDW Restrooms win all. Leo will be so pleased. And cultural to a point is a good point... I mean, it's McD's after all!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Nice report. I'm glad to hear that there's a company out there that "gets" theme parks.>> OLC definitely does. And without jumping too far ahead (hey, it's my thread so I can break my own 'rules'!) I'll say that's the biggest point that I'll come back to here time and again. OLC is just as money-grubbing as TWDC. They nickle and dime (wait til I start my rant on passes) more in some ways. BUT ... BUT ... BUT ... unlike TWDC they still believe the way to make the most $$$ is by offering the highest quality family themed entertainment in the world. Their committment to providing that quality show on a daily basis is absolutely stunning in a way I can only toss a bit of light on. You simply must experience the TDR to understand where Disney's parks legacy shines brightest. <<Hey Spirit, do you have one of these kinds of posts for Disneyland Paris? I may be heading there for a day next year.>> I have posted many times about my DLP visits (been an APer for three of the last five years) on the DLP board. But if you have any questions post them down there and a few of us (Davewasbaloo is the resident DLP expert) will respond.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And it's only cultural to a point, go to McD's and you can get HUGE burgers just like the USA*** Well, this is a reflection of the fact you've only come to Japan for the first time recently. Even a couple of years ago, McDonalds had NO quarter pounders at all and the biggest burger was a big mac. And, if you go into the JAPANESE fast food places, the burgers and fries and everything else are TINY, and expensive. Very nice quality, but very tiny portions. So I think you are sort of seeing a weird transitional period at this point. If the trend towards "bigger is better" continues, I'm sure you'll see Japanese FF places, and eventually Disney, pile on the volume. For now though, it's more of an experiment on McDonalds' part than anything else (AND, keep in mind that this, I believe, was in response to Wendy's offering up big doubles and triples, but now Wendy's no longer exists in Japan...so we might even see a McDonalds reversal on this, which wouldn't surprise me at all).
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>OLC is just as money-grubbing as TWDC. They nickle and dime (wait til I start my rant on passes) more in some ways. BUT ... BUT ... BUT ... unlike TWDC they still believe the way to make the most $$$ is by offering the highest quality family themed entertainment in the world. Their committment to providing that quality show on a daily basis is absolutely stunning in a way I can only toss a bit of light on. You simply must experience the TDR to understand where Disney's parks legacy shines brightest.<<< So essentially...It's worth it. They keep up attractions, provide great entertainment, and unique offerings, so charging those amounts are worth it. And WDW...? It's huge, after all...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What exactly were you pizza issues?>> No pizza issues. Never had any pizza at TDR and the stuff I saw looked good. <<I managed to have a pizza issue (or more likely a translation issue) on my visit to TDS several years ago. I ordered the spaghetti bolonese at Zambini Brothers, and ended up with the salmon and potato pizza.>> Well, I had your pasta at ZB then and it was very, very good Seriously. <<It was well made and tasty and all, but I had just spent the last hour wandering the park looking for something that I really wanted. I bypassed several places with the pizza, since I was really in the mood for pasta, but it is what it is. I checked the reciept, and it looked like the charged me for the pizza, so I didn't say anything about it.>> Did you order off the individual menus at the register that have the English next to the Japanese? I did that everywhere, and while a few CMs had cursory English skills, it made sure I got what I wanted. <<Was it something to do more with the general Japanese take on pizza? The fried egg in the middle and corn as a topping don't really do it for me, but it's not really TDR's fault for giving the locals what they like...>> I actually had some good pizza in Tokyo, with no egg on it ... or corn for that matter (although I like the latter and am used to it from Pizza Hut in China).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<At TDS, the food at all levels has a wide variety. The popcorn variety is infamous,>> Yes. My new favorite is the milk tea popcorn, second would be the honey. <<but not as much talked about but more significant (and delicious!) is the wide variety of snack items available from permanent kiosks (I don't know if they're considered ODV or not). You're not limited to Mickey-head ice cream sandwiches, churros, and giant pretzels - in fact, I'm not sure that any of those are available at all at TDS. Rather, each vending location has its own unique offering. And I can't think of any that are "weird Japanese stuff" like something with tentacles. And Mr X showed me a secret: don't be shy about taking your snack purchase to a nearby counter service restaurant and taking advantage of the condiment bar - they may have just the sauce needed to make the snack even better.>> They do indeed have churros. Best ones I've ever had. So much so that I kept buying them, even the Mickey ones (slightly larger, extra pixie dust for 50 yen more 300 vs. 250). <<Plus, there are something like 6+ counter service restaurants, at least 2 table service restaurants, and an all-you-can-eat (called a "Viking" in Japanese) buffet, with a good variety of food between them.>> I considered the buffet in the American Waterfront (Sailing Day?) one night, but there was a line and the cost (about $40) seemed high (although WDW is charging that this week with its holiday surcharge). I paid a whole lot less for great buffets in Vegas a few days ago (but that place is in a complete depression no matter what you hear/read/may think).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<There is a particular location from which you can see the following all in one glance...Country Bears, Thunder Mountain, the Riverboat and Train, as well as Peter Pan's flight and Dumbo, and within a few paces you can also see Snow White's Grotto and the Castle (with the Country Bears still in view.>> Thanks, X! That's the perfect example and I forgot all about it. It's all right there ... if Mansion wasn't set back a bit, you'd be able to see it too. <<Spirit brings up a great point about the Starjets/Toontown/Fantasyland mess (yup, also all visible in a single glance, don't even have to turn around but if you do you'll also see Space Mountain). It's pretty nasty, when you think about it. You can tell the imaginers had their hearts and minds (and creativity) in Orlando at that point in history.>> Yeah, most of T-land was definitely lifted from MK, even if Space Mountain is the Anaheim version (sans sound but with cooler queue).
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I considered the buffet in the American Waterfront (Sailing Day?) one night, but there was a line and the cost (about $40) seemed high >>> It is high. It's cheaper for lunch, and may even have the same menu. It's pretty much the only food item at TDS that gives me sticker shock when I look at it. But, you certainly won't have problems with portion size at an all-you-can-eat buffet! <<< (although WDW is charging that this week with its holiday surcharge). >>> I got stung by that a couple of years ago. At first, I thought "at least there will be extra seasonal items on the menu" but as far as I can tell, the "holiday surcharge" is nothing other than an extra charge put on the bill that you get absolutely nothing for in return. But by calling it a "holiday surcharge" I guess that a lot of guests will not really think about it much and just accept it. <<< I paid a whole lot less for great buffets in Vegas a few days ago (but that place is in a complete depression no matter what you hear/read/may think). >>> For the price, no Disney buffet is going to match what's on offer in Las Vegas. BTW Spirit, did you have a chance to try any of the incredible hotel buffets when you were in Hong Kong?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<< I understand some folks will say 'I don't care about what isn't working, only what is' and my only response would be you have no idea what you are missing. To experience attractions that opened in 1983 look like they debutted yesterday is truly a wonder. >>> <<This really can't be overemphasized. Someone unwittingly expressed this in the "negative" thread when they made a positive comment about a WDW attraction that had recently come out of refurb and everything worked properly, was lit properly, and sounded proper. The comment was along the lines of how noticeable it was, and just how much of a difference it made to make the attraction more enjoyable. Kudos to WDW that they still know how to do that when they want to. Unfortunately, to turn the argument around on its head: that's the way the parks should be every day with every attraction, and the ones in Tokyo consistently live up to this standard. As that person in the other thread mentioned about that one attraction, imagine *every* attraction being that way and how it would make both the attractions themselves and the experience overall more enjoyable.>> Exactly. It's kinda like how the fanbois on another MAGICal site get all wet and lathered up when Disney paints a building, puts a scrim up or cleans something. Sorry bois, but those are the BASICS. You don't get credit for doing the bare minimum of what you are supposed to do. One thing I HATE, HATE, HATE about writing about WDW is when they do finally fix something and you have mention it, yet you feel dirty because it should never have been allowed to decay to begin with. <<Put another way, it appears that the attractions are maintained to the SQS that WDI delivers with them when they are built. How ironic that the only parks that seem to do this consistently are the only ones not managed by TWDC.>> I firmly believe that SQS is laughed about at TDO ... there's no other explanation for the godawful quality you see across the four parks. While not perfect/TDR level, Anaheim, Paris and Hong Kong are all much better at this than Orlando is too.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>There is a particular location from which you can see the following all in one glance...Country Bears, Thunder Mountain, the Riverboat and Train, as well as Peter Pan's flight and Dumbo, and within a few paces you can also see Snow White's Grotto and the Castle (with the Country Bears still in view. Spirit brings up a great point about the Starjets/Toontown/Fantasyland mess (yup, also all visible in a single glance, don't even have to turn around but if you do you'll also see Space Mountain). It's pretty nasty, when you think about it. You can tell the imaginers had their hearts and minds (and creativity) in Orlando at that point in history.<<<< <<While I hate to judge anything before I see it...YEESH. That can't be good for thematics. Is it really that detracting? >> It's odd. I don't know how else to explain it. TDL is a wonderful park. I would rather spend a day in it than I would in the MK by far. BUT ... in some ways it does feel like elements were 'dropped in' because they really were. And with the exception of some of the recent big-budget E-Tix, what is in the park really was all taken from WDI's DL/WDW catalog ... so for any MK/DL vet, so much is familiar yet different at the same time.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And I do have to agree with the hodge-podge layout of TDL, at least to some degree. There are often attractions right up to the edge of certain lands, thus preventing smooth transitions. I'm trying to think back to my first visit, which was in 1995. I knew nothing about it going in, other than that it was there, and visited for about a half-day. It was interesting, but it seemed to be just a collection of my favorite DL rides (DL was the only other Disney park I had been to at the time). It certainly seemed bigger, and with more cement in places, than DL. I guess the lack of transitions, and sometimes odd juxtapositions, just don't bother me as much as they do some people. It's kind of odd in a sense, because I really like how they do it right at TDS, and appreciate the difference, but that particular aspect of TDL doesn't disturb me. I actually never think of it unless someone else brings it up.>> It doesn't really bother me ... likely because so many things are done so perfectly in the park. But I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it since some Disney fanbois bash IOA for weak transitions when TDL doesn't even have them. And it's more stark when you go next door to TDS, which is just a masterpiece of theme park design. I think another factor is that a few lands at TDL (Fantasy and Tomorrow) are really ready for massive redos, more in the cosmetic/facade/walkway dept. as the attractions are (mostly) fine.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Gotta ask... 1971/1983 Tomorrowland in 2010. How does that work? Doesn't it look dated? I do love, however, that SM is actually centered in the land, and serves as the focal point. Hate that WDW's is wedged off to the side. >> Last post of the night (want to enjoy the cold sleeping weather) ... but to answer you, it looks great from the HUGE hub ... although some of that is nostalgia mixed with the fact it is perfectly maintained. But as I said in my last post, the land needs updating. Recall from your Fanboi Handbook that Eddie Sotto developed a Sci-Fi City redo for OLC in the late 1990s and had it killed and the funds diverted to TDS. If something needed updating in the 90s, then it stands to reason that in 2010-11 it needs it even more.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Great read so far and I will comment when we return from our Christmas party, but I thought you were going to do a global comparison thread. As a kid, I was only ever interested in TDL to see the cultural differences, Meet the World (dead), the Villain Walk Through in the castle (dead) and the Mickey Mouse Review (dead). Now that TDS is open, it calls to me.
Originally Posted By Mr X Out of those three, the Castle Mystery Tour was the only worth bothering with (MMR was fun in a kitchy,70's way but only just, and MTW was just a heavily propagandized waste of time). I really LOVED Mystery Tour though, it had many cool elements (including a mini-version of YOUR castles' dragon Dave!), and was unique AND even more unique in that it was an actual walking tour with a guide and everything! Too bad that one shut down, it was close to a must-see (the lines were often daunting enough to skip it though).
Originally Posted By sjhym333 "How many WDW attractions have show effects that don't work right from Day 1? A slice of Everest anyone? Do you realize that many in operations at WDW's parks don't even know many of the effects aren't working because they haven't worked for so many not days, not weeks, not months, but YEARS OR DECADES?" That has been a problem since I was in mgmt in the MK in the 80's and it has gotten worse because of all the levels of mgmt and departments that have been added over the years. When I was there each day one of the coordinators (then leads) would ride an attraction every day using a check list to see what was and what was not working. That list was distributed to all depts in charge of show quality and fixed by that dept. If an item showed up on the report for more than 3 or 4 days we would have a meeting to find out what the hold up (usually it was something that wasnt an easy fix like a burnt out light at Small World in the ceiling). If something was on the list for more than a week or so I would get summoned into the VP's office and asked about it. When he got involved it was amazing how people would jump (though somethings could only be fixed during a rehab). Today there are many more layers of people involved in the process and the process itself is overly complicated. The show quality goes to this dept then that dept then this dept and so on. It takes a long time for things to get fixed. Same thing with peeling paint. The only way to get something done quickly is if it is a safety issues...cant get sued, you know. A quick story. In the late 80's I had a CM who everyday would write up the plane projection that flew across the sky over the city of tomorrow on Wedway was out. I had never seen the plane in all the years I had been there and it wasnt on our checklist, but everyday she wrote it up. She was insistant that there was a plane effect. Maitenance sided with me about it. Finally one day at a meeting I asked the maitenance supervisor to have some see if there is something we were missing there. A day later he and I walked to track and he showed me...a plane flying over the city. The projector bulb had burnt out years ago and no one realised it initially and then no one even remembered except this one person. Even today when I ride I look for that plane...though I think no one remembers it because I havent seen it in a long time.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In the late 80's I had a CM who everyday would write up the plane projection that flew across the sky over the city of tomorrow on Wedway was out. I had never seen the plane in all the years I had been there and it wasnt on our checklist, but everyday she wrote it up. She was insistant that there was a plane effect. Maitenance sided with me about it. Finally one day at a meeting I asked the maitenance supervisor to have some see if there is something we were missing there. A day later he and I walked to track and he showed me...a plane flying over the city. The projector bulb had burnt out years ago and no one realised it initially and then no one even remembered except this one person*** Very cool story sjh! I hope that attentive CM was properly commended for her keen eye!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I don't know how else to explain it. TDL is a wonderful park. I would rather spend a day in it than I would in the MK by far. BUT ... in some ways it does feel like elements were 'dropped in' because they really were.<<< So, everything is perfect, but lumped together. LOL. I could get used to it, if it' kept up that well. If it wasn't, I would imagine that the place would reek of cheapness.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> Last post of the night (want to enjoy the cold sleeping weather) ... but to answer you, it looks great from the HUGE hub ... although some of that is nostalgia mixed with the fact it is perfectly maintained. But as I said in my last post, the land needs updating. Recall from your Fanboi Handbook that Eddie Sotto developed a Sci-Fi City redo for OLC in the late 1990s and had it killed and the funds diverted to TDS. If something needed updating in the 90s, then it stands to reason that in 2010-11 it needs it even more.<<< So it's like walking into a WDW of 1985? I wouldn't mind... And right, it's very overdue for a new look. I wonder if that's in the pipeine? If anything, the parks abroad don't seem to "update" things, in that respect, or refurbish, they just seem to build new things. Probably because the maintenance is kept up so well.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ***In the late 80's I had a CM who everyday would write up the plane projection that flew across the sky over the city of tomorrow on Wedway was out. I had never seen the plane in all the years I had been there and it wasnt on our checklist, but everyday she wrote it up. She was insistant that there was a plane effect. Maitenance sided with me about it. Finally one day at a meeting I asked the maitenance supervisor to have some see if there is something we were missing there. A day later he and I walked to track and he showed me...a plane flying over the city. The projector bulb had burnt out years ago and no one realised it initially and then no one even remembered except this one person*** That's awesome... and terrible that no one knew about it. Aren't their manuals that 3rd shift can consult?! Makes me wonder about the missing chariot in SSE. That's been gone too. Did everyone forget that, too!?
