Originally Posted By MousDad This report is way to WDW-friendly for my tastes. There better be some hardcore, O-town bashing in the next installment. If there's anything I can't stand, it's positive, objective comments coming from Spirit. 'All the negative comments' are something I come to this board for, and by jingo I better get me some.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< (the prices haven't changed much over the years though, so had you visited when the yen was around 115 to the dollar or better, it'd have seemed more of a bargain and been cheaper than WDW by a bit as well (though still pretty skimpy portions wise). >>> Yep. Considering that the dollar was at 123 yen as recently as June 2007, prices of everything in Japan have gone up fully 50% from a US perspective in just 3.5 years. Based on local pricing, I think TDR food is quite reasonable by theme park standards.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Thanks for posting. I love reading all the posts. From all the photos and video I have seen of TDL it comes off as a bad cut and paste MK. The most awful of the TDL sights is the covered main st. of World Bizzare .... How friggin ugly. You haven't commented on it so I assume you feel the covered main street works in person.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>This report is way to WDW-friendly for my tastes. There better be some hardcore, O-town bashing in the next installment. If there's anything I can't stand, it's positive, objective comments coming from Spirit. 'All the negative comments' are something I come to this board for, and by jingo I better get me some.<<< I had more fun at a Zoo today than I have ever had in DAK. Did that help?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>OLC is just as money-grubbing as TWDC. They nickle and dime (wait til I start my rant on passes) more in some ways. BUT ... BUT ... BUT ... unlike TWDC they still believe the way to make the most $$$ is by offering the highest quality family themed entertainment in the world. Their committment to providing that quality show on a daily basis is absolutely stunning in a way I can only toss a bit of light on. You simply must experience the TDR to understand where Disney's parks legacy shines brightest.<<< <<So essentially...It's worth it. They keep up attractions, provide great entertainment, and unique offerings, so charging those amounts are worth it.>> Are you asking if TDL is worth the price of admission? If so, the answer is absolutely. You get incredible value from a ticket -- even a one day ticket. The park is great, but it isn't the best MK style park out there. DL is No. 1. It is the original and nothing beats it. DLP would beat TDL on many fronts (certainly master-plan design, modern versions of classics and, certainly, food) but it suffers from up-and-down upkeep, some cast indifference and not nearly the entertainment variety/quality TDL has. But from a value perspective, TDL offers the most bang for your buck when you just look at the cost of a ticket. <<And WDW...? It's huge, after all...>> Yes. And that was a great thing for 20-25 years. But now? As WDW has grown, quality across the board (not everywhere, not everything, just in general) has fallen in step. WDW's blessing of size has really turned into a curse because of a greedy corporate mindset that sees no value in having land that isn't developed. WDW was never meant to be a massive hotel and timeshare complex (and that's leaving out the real estate development from Celebration to Rotting Oaks to Dead Flamingos). And TWDC has shown no committment towards solving the HUGE transportation issues (see Em's thread for a current example) that have been plaguing the resort a good 15 years now. On said subject, I had better transportation quality at my Tokyo Good Neighbor Hotel than folks staying at the GF.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<< (although WDW is charging that this week with its holiday surcharge). >>> <<I got stung by that a couple of years ago. At first, I thought "at least there will be extra seasonal items on the menu" but as far as I can tell, the "holiday surcharge" is nothing other than an extra charge put on the bill that you get absolutely nothing for in return. But by calling it a "holiday surcharge" I guess that a lot of guests will not really think about it much and just accept it.>> Just price gouging the guests, plain and simple. A decade ago, the prices at buffets were much lower (40% maybe more?) AND there were no holiday surcharges AND you could use discounts like DDE or AP etc on all days including Christmas, NYE and NYD ... this is simply the Mouse taking whatever he can. <<< I paid a whole lot less for great buffets in Vegas a few days ago (but that place is in a complete depression no matter what you hear/read/may think). >>> <<For the price, no Disney buffet is going to match what's on offer in Las Vegas.>> Boma always did in my book. <<BTW Spirit, did you have a chance to try any of the incredible hotel buffets when you were in Hong Kong?>> Oh yeah, you can't walk a block without tripping over one it seems It amazes me that folks don't have the morbid obesity we have here when you see the prevalence of buffets.
Originally Posted By Mr X ^---wha? Are you dissing that fantastic monorail service that zips you the whole 3/4 of a mile over to the Magic Kingdom USUALLY within a half hour or possibly even less (depending on traffic clearance conditions, of course...lotsa traffic up there apparently!)!? That transportation quality! How dare you sir! Besides, it's not as though there isn't a walking path you can...oh, forgot. p.s. I don't recall you mentioning it Spirit, but did you ever get a chance to ride the Tokyo monorail? It's ugly on the outside, but the journey is pure magic.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Great read so far and I will comment when we return from our Christmas party, but I thought you were going to do a global comparison thread.>> Thanks and hope you are having a great time (as I look at a pile of 'stuff' I have for you and the family sitting here on my family room floor that likely won't leave here before 2011!) As to the global deal, I do intend to bring that aspect in a bit and may even rank the resorts in major criteria, haven't quite decided. We'll see how much attention this generates ... <<As a kid, I was only ever interested in TDL to see the cultural differences, Meet the World (dead), the Villain Walk Through in the castle (dead) and the Mickey Mouse Review (dead). Now that TDS is open, it calls to me.>> I LOVED both parks. Absolutely. But TDS is a whole new amazing Disney experience. TDL is familiar. That's not a bad thing. But if someone only had a day or even two days, I'd tell them to skip TDL. TDS shows what TWDC and WDI were/are capable while they were delivering substandard products (by their own criteria) everywhere else around the globe at the same time it was being built.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>WDW's blessing of size has really turned into a curse because of a greedy corporate mindset that sees no value in having land that isn't developed. WDW was never meant to be a massive hotel and timeshare complex (and that's leaving out the real estate development from Celebration to Rotting Oaks to Dead Flamingos). And TWDC has shown no committment towards solving the HUGE transportation issues (see Em's thread for a current example) that have been plaguing the resort a good 15 years now.<<< WDW is WAYYY too big for itself. I think the OLC should run it. Agreed? In actuality.. while WDW is a bit too big for itself, I think if we actually gave the park VPs a bit more power (providing that they were actually GOOD VPs...Unlike the King in his Kingdom) to individually run the resorts and parks, I would think that that focused view would help bring quality back on a smaller scale, rather than having to focus on the whole resort.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Out of those three, the Castle Mystery Tour was the only worth bothering with (MMR was fun in a kitchy,70's way but only just, and MTW was just a heavily propagandized waste of time).>> I don't care ... X ... I soooo wanted to experience the MMR one last time (and a first time as an adult). And I have to think you could do an updated show (although some would say that's what PhilharMagic really is) that had AAs and wasn't simply a film. <<I really LOVED Mystery Tour though, it had many cool elements (including a mini-version of YOUR castles' dragon Dave!), and was unique AND even more unique in that it was an actual walking tour with a guide and everything! Too bad that one shut down, it was close to a must-see (the lines were often daunting enough to skip it though).>> Yeah, that was another one I would have really enjoyed. Imagine an attraction themed to the Black Cauldron. That's almost as crazy as Disney releasing a sequel to TRON!!!!!!! in 2010 Oh, and I wonder if anyone here ever saw The Eternal Seas. It was another unique TDL attraction (in T-Land) that I believe only was around for the park's first 2-3 years.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<A quick story. In the late 80's I had a CM who everyday would write up the plane projection that flew across the sky over the city of tomorrow on Wedway was out. I had never seen the plane in all the years I had been there and it wasnt on our checklist, but everyday she wrote it up. She was insistant that there was a plane effect. Maitenance sided with me about it. Finally one day at a meeting I asked the maitenance supervisor to have some see if there is something we were missing there. A day later he and I walked to track and he showed me...a plane flying over the city. The projector bulb had burnt out years ago and no one realised it initially and then no one even remembered except this one person. Even today when I ride I look for that plane...though I think no one remembers it because I havent seen it in a long time.>> Classic story. Not surprising, though. I just don't for a second believe there are folks at the MK that have a clue as to what effects each attraction is supposed to have. Disco Yeti may be too big for even the typical WDW CM to miss ... but a projection in PoC? A sound effect in Peter Pan? An AA making a certain movement in Splash? Nope. I think they are utterly clueless. If typical show quality at TDL is at 99 on a daily basis (that's simply allowing for something to break or a flukey thing since they are damn near perfect), then comparitively MK show quality would be somewhere around 55-65 depending on the day (and that's propped up by the recent Mansion and HoP redos).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So it's like walking into a WDW of 1985? I wouldn't mind...>> Nah ... no Swan Boats ;-) <<And right, it's very overdue for a new look. I wonder if that's in the pipeine?>> I am sure it's been talked about. To what extent, I can't say. The fact OLC is thinking third gate (I was trying to figure out where when taking the Resort Line around, but there's a lot of surface parking that likely could all go into a massive new structure) is a bit strange. But, at some point, TDL is going to have to update the look of those two lands. The good thing is because of the way the OLC maintains things, it doesn't have to be today, tomorrow or even five years down the road. <<If anything, the parks abroad don't seem to "update" things, in that respect, or refurbish, they just seem to build new things. >> Well, true to a certain extent, but other than TDL, the other overseas parks are relative babes. They really haven't been around long enough to require massive updates. <<Probably because the maintenance is kept up so well. >> Yep. That definitely helps as I've said. You'll never see the massive scrims that have been all around the MK in 2009-10 because they never neglect things for years (or decades) to the point where major work is needed.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This report is way to WDW-friendly for my tastes. There better be some hardcore, O-town bashing in the next installment. If there's anything I can't stand, it's positive, objective comments coming from Spirit. 'All the negative comments' are something I come to this board for, and by jingo I better get me some.>> I'll see what I can do for you, Mousdad ... it is the holidays and I am a holiday-loving Spirit. I love to give gifts. And I do have a (seemingly) never-ending supply of O-Town bashing in my holiday sack. ;-) I just like to truly be as fair and balanced as possible.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I don't care ... X ... I soooo wanted to experience the MMR one last time (and a first time as an adult). And I have to think you could do an updated show (although some would say that's what PhilharMagic really is) that had AAs and wasn't simply a film.<<< Philhar would be so much better with AA's ala MV 3D... Would add some variety. >>>Oh, and I wonder if anyone here ever saw The Eternal Seas. It was another unique TDL attraction (in T-Land) that I believe only was around for the park's first 2-3 years.<<< Wasn't that the pre-show to The Living Seas!?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Nah ... no Swan Boats ;-)<<< They were closed by then, Spirit... ;-) >>>I am sure it's been talked about. To what extent, I can't say. The fact OLC is thinking third gate (I was trying to figure out where when taking the Resort Line around, but there's a lot of surface parking that likely could all go into a massive new structure) is a bit strange.<<< Oh gosh... ...Is Tokyo actually going to do a HWood Studios park the RIGHT WAY!? All they need is EPCOT at this point. ..unless that's the 3rd gate? I could see Tokyo being that daring/risky...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Thanks for posting. I love reading all the posts. >> Thanks for reading and commenting. As long as the audience is there, the posts will follow as possible. <<From all the photos and video I have seen of TDL it comes off as a bad cut and paste MK. The most awful of the TDL sights is the covered main st. of World Bizzare .... How friggin ugly. You haven't commented on it so I assume you feel the covered main street works in person.>> I don't find World Bazaar to be ugly at all. Not in the least. It's different to be sure, but had to be ... and it works. I can also imagine it helps during nasty weather, which I didn't experience. The land was never intended to be a pure Main Street to begin with (hence the name and also putting the only, at least at opening, Japanese restaurant there). You have an art deco-like restaurant (can't think of the name right now) ... you have a Disney Gallery (albeit a lousy one). But you have some great 'old' Main Street touches long gone from FLA ... like a Penny Arcade and a GREAT Magic Shop and a still working REAL bank. Until they expanded the Emporium a few years ago, you also had a Cinema too. But it all works. Even the lack of sidewalks. From a design standpoint, I do find the original choices made by WDI to be facinating. Having World Bazaar's Center Street actually act as a second entrance to Adventureland and Tomorrowland for instance. So you don't have to go all the way down to the massive Hub, take a left, pass the bank and the hidden Club 33 entrance and you wind up in the mini-New Orleans Square area of Adventureland ... take a right and you wind up right in front of the new Monsters: Ride and Go Seek and close to Star Tours and Showbase (where the stage show One Man's Dream II plays to packed houses 5-6 times daily). People may not like it, but that's just a taste/feeling issue. Same as those who will complain about the size of DL's castle and things of that ilk. I know some people just won't like a 'Main Street' with no berm/train station and a giant glass covering over it. For me, it works quite well.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I had more fun at a Zoo today than I have ever had in DAK. >> Can I take you for a ride in the Everglades?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^ It doesn't effect sight lines? You can see the Castle? Or is it like those pesky TREES!?!? ;-) Speaking of trees... How are those in Tokyo?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Post 58 for post 57... >>>Can I take you for a ride in the Everglades?<<< So is this a YES for a ride on Saturday? (I was being facetious, dear spirit... where's the humor? )
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>Oh, and I wonder if anyone here ever saw The Eternal Seas. It was another unique TDL attraction (in T-Land) that I believe only was around for the park's first 2-3 years.<<< <<Wasn't that the pre-show to The Living Seas!?>> Nope. This was a film that played at TDL and was developed for its opening. One of the least-known attarctions. >>>Nah ... no Swan Boats ;-)<<< <<They were closed by then, Spirit... ;-) >> Don't correct your elders who actually LIVED it, EE! ... The Swan Boats were running in 1985 because I rode them. Specifically, I rode them twice on Easter Sunday (before dining at the Contemporary) and I even have a photo taken on them. They actually stopped running in '86. ... Were you like minus-5 years old at the time? ;-) >>>I am sure it's been talked about. To what extent, I can't say. The fact OLC is thinking third gate (I was trying to figure out where when taking the Resort Line around, but there's a lot of surface parking that likely could all go into a massive new structure) is a bit strange.<<< <<Oh gosh... ...Is Tokyo actually going to do a HWood Studios park the RIGHT WAY!?>> I can pracitcally guarantee that isn't it at all. <<All they need is EPCOT at this point. ..unless that's the 3rd gate? I could see Tokyo being that daring/risky...>> EPCOT will never be repeated. The only time it came close was with Westcot. I don't know what the theme would be. I've only heard a few folks even mention the fact it has been talked about and gone beyond blue sky. The one thing I would hate would be anything Marvel related, but I do think that might be a possibility.
