Originally Posted By Mr X ^^^--well, technically the Mansion IS in Fantasyland so, though I think it's shoehorned as heck, it's not technically a transition issue. Still, the placement in Florida is FAR superior and fits the surroundings much better...Cali, of course, is a completely different mansion and also fits very nicely. Tokyo, not so much.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer The placement in Fla is stunning, honestly. And not just with the architecture.... I LOVE how the LS BGM slowly gives way to wind...and it's quiet... And the Mansion looms. Perfect.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> Are the folks in charge just so distanced from their product that they don't see what they are really doing?<<< Bingo. A lot of the guys at the top are spreadsheet managers. Money is the motivation, not so much the product. Not all of them, but because Iger and Rasulo are the way they are, it means those that love the product sadly have to pick their battles and fight for the stuff they think is really important. Sad but true.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Then it hit me one day when I was standing in front of Critter Country staring at Dumbo in one direction and the Riverboat when I realized I didn't know what the hell land I was supposed to be in! So I looked down at the pavement and confirmed that I was indeed in Westernland, but only a few feet away from Fantasyland.<<< worse than I have always feared. Hmmm Whereas the transitions in DLP are amazing, you can see Fantasyland from adventureland, but Pirates of the Caribbean with Skull Rock and the pirate ship are next to Peter Pan's Flight - the transition is amazing.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>>sigh. It's funny that the best kept Magic Kingdom is the worst in it's design.<<< Or that the best designed MK park - DLP - has the least amount of live entertainment and some poor maintenance (though not as bad as the MK).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>The placement in Fla is stunning, honestly. And not just with the architecture.... I LOVE how the LS BGM slowly gives way to wind...and it's quiet... And the Mansion looms. Perfect.<<< LS is very nice with HM, again one of the few things I think the MK does right. But again EE, I think you will love the set up of DLP's Phantom Manor. Nest to the undertakers, overlooking all of Frontierland including the Big Thunder Mining Company that provided the wealth to build the Manor. It has the most extensive and themed queue of the mansions too.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It also has the best boot hill/graveyard too overall (though no Madame Leota Gravestone, points to WDW on that one). But we do have a tomb where you can hear a beating heart periodically.
Originally Posted By dshyates It is a shame that WDW's MK with it's fantastic layout could be one of the best MK-style parks but is SOOO sub-par. Dean Wormer: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son".
Originally Posted By Mr X ***>>>Then it hit me one day when I was standing in front of Critter Country staring at Dumbo in one direction and the Riverboat when I realized I didn't know what the hell land I was supposed to be in! So I looked down at the pavement and confirmed that I was indeed in Westernland, but only a few feet away from Fantasyland.<<< worse than I have always feared*** There's nothing to fear...TDL is what it is, but it makes up for the initial lameness in tons of great ways, which just goes to show, a park isn't ALWAYS about the buildings and rides but there is an intangible magic/great service/human element as well...as you mentioned regarding EuroDisneyland Case in point, on our latest trip to TDL over Christmastime we were about to sit down for a pizza lunch near Peter Pan/Country Bear Theater (yeah, I know lol)...but it was busy and there was but one table available and it was slightly dirty. I was ordered by the Mrs X to find a custodian and I approached one guy (I felt bad cause he looked busy! it was a busy day!), and in my haste I had a total brain fart and forgot how to ask for his help in Japanese. All I came up with was something like "Me Tarzan! Table messy!"...well, then he disappeared. I wondered if he'd just run away (lol), but he emerged from backstage about 90 seconds later armed with mop and pail and gloves and any other cleaning tools (I guess he feared the mess might have been worse thanks to my crappy language skills of the moment, so he was ready for anything). When he saw the (outdoor) table, he ripped off the gloves and proceeded to clean everything around us within an inch of its' life (including the chairs, which he also dried off after wiping, and a quick sweep around the immediate area as well), and then asked us if we needed any other chairs or anything else. It wasn't anything "special", per se, but the fact that he so quickly jumped into action in the middle of being busy doing something else, and made sure everything was just PERFECT for us, was very very cool, and the kinds of standards that make Disney "Disney" when we experience them (we thanked him profusely, though I wish I'd checked his name tag in order to go to Guest Relations and fill out an official compliment!).
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>LS is very nice with HM, again one of the few things I think the MK does right. But again EE, I think you will love the set up of DLP's Phantom Manor. Nest to the undertakers, overlooking all of Frontierland including the Big Thunder Mining Company that provided the wealth to build the Manor. It has the most extensive and themed queue of the mansions too.<<< I'd imagine. I like the fact that they are secluded and themed to their environments.
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///he(a TDR CM) emerged from backstage about 90 seconds later armed with mop and pail and gloves and any other cleaning tools/// VERY COOL! (and pretty much par for the TDR course) And for those who have never been to the Tokyo parks here's how you, the guest, would be treated on a rainy day: A CM team of 2 or 3 in full rain gear stands post on a non main walkway with push squeegee 'brooms' clearing out very thin standing water(so thin that they would only affect the bottom part of shoes) so you will not have to step in the puddles or deviate from your natural course. And the coolest part is that they were clearing the standing water while the rain continued indefinitely. Most organizations would only clear the water puddles AFTER the rain has stopped and only on main walkways.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>Have just now had a chance to see this thread, and I see that WDW had the best restrooms of all.<<< <<My vote would go to Disneyland Paris on this one, for the Discoveryland themed ones in the Videopolis theatre - dark wood art neuveau mirrors, marble pillers and dyson airblades.>> That is one nice place to take care of business, Dave ... but my comment was made more in general. When I look at the quality of restrooms, I take into consideration cleanliness, size, soap and then theming too ... and WDW has a resort is tops in toilets in my book. And I've had plenty of Spirited visits to Disney restrooms across the globe! I would have, honestly, expected a few facilities the size of say the World Showplace at EPCOT or Fantasmic at TPFKaTD-MGMS because of the crowds at those parks when TDR basically doesn't have any facilities the size of say the restrooms on either side of SSE or near the Plaza Restaurant at MK etc ... they are very, very small ... typical men's room is six urinals, three stalls, two sinks, one not very good hand dryer, lousy soap and no paper towels.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<<<< By contrast, you can have a highly detailed queue like DAK's KRR, but an attraction that totally sucks. .>>>> <<Agreed. Every time I visit Animal Kingdom, I walk through the queue but only rode it twice.>> I haven't ridden it since about 2000 and haven't walked the queue in almost as long. Queues aren't why I go to WDW or any theme parks at all. I like having them, but if an attraction is lousy, a nice queue isn't going to change that. <<As for Pirates, I have been on FL, CA and The Paris version. For me, Paris wins. Then CA and then MK. >> I can't even pick a favorite. I LOVE DL's version ... and DLP's ... and TDL's ... and ... well, MK is just way behind all the rest, no matter which version you like best.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I actually really like Kali...hides.>> See, your taste in raft rides isn't nearly as good as your taste in airport bed buddies I truly hate it. Short. Off the shelf. Soaking. Very little show. Not like the Tiger Rapids originally planned at all. I hate rafting rides in general because I get wetter than when I am in a swimming pool and that's just not fun. That said, there are two that I'll go on anyway (IOA and DCA).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Okay, I've finally had time to read the first 70 or so posts of this thread without just skimming.>> Only 70 Christi?!??! What's up with that? Are you taking bathroom breaks? Sleeping? Making snow moose? (Sorry, don't know what you do for fun in ND!) You need to commit yourself (advice many have given the Spirit over the years, only I think they meant in some sort of institution with padded walls and REALLY good pixie dust!) <<I am very intrigued and am still processing. I had already followed some of it over on the Tokyo threads. I consider myself a big Disney lover, but I am not well schooled in the imagineering details. I just assume that the extra quality and experience I perceieve at Disney Parks is due to the details even if I don't notice them specifically. That's sort of the point. They are supposed to be masters at this stuff, and I'm supposed to be so immersed that I don't realize it all but just enjoy it. So when I hear that the transitions in Tokyo are awful, I wonder if I will notice. Or will I simply think it isn't as good and not know why?>> I haven't really extrapolated on this (have had some catching up to do on the homefront), but I would say in my case I noticed, but the 'bad' of the lack of transitions were outweighed by all the good (cleanliness, upkeep, incredible show quality, more entertainment than in all the USA parks combined). It's not that you don't see things. It's just I didn't stand there looking at the ancient Star Jets with Toontown behind them while I had a FP for Pooh's Hunny Hunt or Mansion Holiday Nightmare tucked in my lanyard! I mentioned them because I am a fair and balanced Spirit no matter what some may think, and it was jarring at times. <<As for the quality and upkeep of the attractions, I am both green with envy and sick over corp greed in America. Why oh why don't folks believe that quality is worth something?>> You really don't want a 5,000 word post on how we've Walmarted the greatest nation on earth now, do you? <<Okay, more people, because some obviously do. I don't want 50 crappy things or experiences! I want a couple of great ones! But soap boxing aside, bringing it to the WDW level, why would you truly be okay with putting out a half axx product? How could you sit there and say, let's spend half as much on maintenance, do half as much upkeep, and see if we can pull in the same bucks? Who feels good about that? Who can feel the pride of working for the world famous Disney Company while doing that slime ball crap? Call it business all you want. I don't buy it. There might be hard choices, like putting in less new stuff, or closing parks on a couple of days in off season, but it is not a legitimate and viable business plan to sell a deteriorating product for too much on an aging reputation. It catches up to you. And you should feel like a schmuck. Are the folks in charge just so distanced from their product that they don't see what they are really doing?>> Wow. That was so well said. I almost felt the bile down here in paradise (80 degrees tomorrow!)I don't think most of the folks see themselves as destroying an amazing 'brand' everytime they make a cutback in quality. And those that do, don't care. They are in it for the money, like most execs in 21st century American corporations. They don't care about the damage because they won't have to deal with the aftermath. And, let's face it, with WDW you are dealing with an audience that largely doesn't know what it is missing out on or doesn't care. That plays right into things. If the OLC suddenly began showing only one parade a day or keeping the same parades for 20 years (yeah MK, I'm looking at you) or had attractions that were only open certain days or staggered hours, they wouldn't be able to get away with it. They'd have lines of very angry Japanese visitors who don't want a Walmart product. <<So back to the original post...(if anyone is still reading, lol)>> I hang on your every word ... <<...why do you think that the OLC gets so much right and falls down on the bathrooms? Doesn't that seem odd? Kind of a basic thing. And not that hard. Is it cultural? Or did they not anticipate this level of visitors when the infrastructure was put in? If so, is it terribly hard to fix? I mean, you'd think putting in more hand dryers wouldn't be tough. Curious thing to me. >> The Spirit hates to answer a question this way, but it is the honest answer: I don't know. When I talked to a local friend (and APer) about the phenomenon -- specifically people walking out of a restroom with wet hands -- she said that many people in Japan carry napkins/tissues on themselves and wipe off with them. I can say that is true to some extent. I can't say they didn't anticipate the crowds when one of the biggest restroom complexes in the resort (in Tomorrowland) dates back to 83, yet most of the 21st century restrooms in TDS are small as well.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<BTW, Spirit, truly a great thread.>> Thanks. <<I am sure some folks choose not to read anything from certified doom and gloomers, but I think that your comments so far have been extremely reasonable and free of hyperbole.>> Thanks again, although I'd love to know where/when I was certified as a 'doom and gloomer' ... I really think I am very fair about most things. <<You have given WDW its credit where due, and that's all we can ask. Of course, I'm guessing the next installment won't be so WDW friendly judging from previews! >> I dunno ... I will be appearing next at WDW and I just have this feeling when I leave all I'll be raving about is how great WWoHP is. (or maybe I'll be crying over Wishes and the bulldozing of Tent-town Fair). <<Glad you enjoyed the conclusion of your world wide Disney tour. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us.>> I don't look at it as the conclusion ... rather the beginning of my life as fanboi royalty ... besides, I have Shanghai to look forward to.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>So when I hear that the transitions in Tokyo are awful, I wonder if I will notice. Or will I simply think it isn't as good and not know why? <<< <<I wonder this, as well. I dislike DHS for these same reasons. But it does sound quite abrupt. >> Nah. Studios never had a masterplan and it shows. Those types of parks also take advantage of the conceit that you are going 'behind the scenes' and that way you can have amazingly detailed areas like Sunset Blvd. and then plain soundstage-like buildings ... TDL has some transition issues, but nothing like what you see at Studio parks.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<If you know where to look, you can also see Ispiari from that very spot, but I'm sure Spirit noticed that with his keen eye. >> Nope. I don't think so ... although I do recall seeing the Sheraton Tokyo Bay from one (or perhaps both) park ... and I think I saw Ikspiari from BTMRR's hills too (of course, I also saw a burning settlers cabin that had been attacked by Indians since they haven't gone all PC on us from said ride!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>>sigh. It's funny that the best kept Magic Kingdom is the worst in it's design.<<< <<Or that the best designed MK park - DLP - has the least amount of live entertainment and some poor maintenance (though not as bad as the MK).>> I think all the MK style parks have great attributes and things you can (that is the role of a fan, right?) pick apart. I think at the end of the thread (maybe March 23rd) I may rank all MKs on some keys and see where they stack up (see, although I say DL is the crown jewel, I wonder how it may come out when I take emotion out of the equation ...) I do think TDL is the worst designed MK park in SOME ways (not all by any means), but everything else is so great that you do (or I did) tend to overlook some of that ...
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< (of course, I also saw a burning settlers cabin that had been attacked by Indians since they haven't gone all PC on us from said ride!) >>> ... not to mention pirates chasing women. There's a very clear view of the Official Hotels while you're on Raging Spirits in TDS, and it seems totally unnecessary, as all they needed to do was extent the already-extensive walls they put up around most of the attraction. Did the Spirit notice how cleverly the monorail was hidden from view from TDS, even when you're looking out into Tokyo Bay?
