Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Now outside the competitive issues. WDW saw an across the board decline (save DAK) while central Fl saw a 10% increase, and Universal saw a massive increase. All while offering free dining. Universal may have siphoned off a few Disney days. But I believe the increased traffic to Cent. FL actually added people to Disney's numbers. As in the Mouse rode Potter's robe tails into JUST a modest decrease. I believe that had Universal NOT have opened Potter, WDW's numbers would have been far less impressive<< That is a great point. Without Universal, Orlando would have done worse, thus Disney. Then throw in the fact that Disney discounted heavily, and their modest decrease speaks volumes. Also note how much better Disneyland is doing in contrast to WDW. 2 parks v. 4 parks. Disneyland keeps growing.
Originally Posted By dshyates Oh, and from looking at Sea World's numbers I am predicting that Sea World will once again sue TEA. This happens ever year and I am pretty sure that at this point TEA is just messing with them.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Yeah, according to our best calculations 9 people went to Sea World Orlando this year"- COO, TEA
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Those of us that love themed entertainment are in agreement that Universal Creative is kicking WDI's mouse tail in attraction development. And I believe that Transformers will reiterate the point." There is no question about that, but in regard to the attendance numbers published yesterday there is no evidence that Disney should be shaking in its boots just because last year's numbers were soft. Again, looking at the figures from a decade ago Disney has sustained fairly strong growth, so it's not surprising in the least that last year was flat in the wake of HP. In fact, this isn't even news because Disney stated that attendance was down at WDW last year months ago. What's significant to me is that even with the HP excitement and the dramatic attendance jump, Universal was DOWN from 10 years ago. If Disney and Sea World have a significant declines this year and the year following while Universal experiences a growth in crowds, then yes, it will be clear that the long term effect of Universal's effort may be taking a toll on the local theme park business. "Also note how much better Disneyland is doing in contrast to WDW. 2 parks v. 4 parks. Disneyland keeps growing." I think that DLR is riding the general trend of increases within the industry in addition to attracting more crowds as the popularity of DCA grows. Note that the only domestic parks in the top ten that had declines were those in the Orlando area.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Oh, and from looking at Sea World's numbers I am predicting that Sea World will once again sue TEA. This happens ever year and I am pretty sure that at this point TEA is just messing with them." They sued TEA? Why?
Originally Posted By dshyates Sea world says that TEA is under reporting their numbers because Sea World Ent. Is the worst ( even worse than Disney) at working with them.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Note that the only domestic parks in the top ten that had declines were those in the Orlando area.<< Already noted ;-> Also note that Orlando tourism never recovered from pre-2001 (Millenium boost and 9/11) levels. This year it improved 10.5%!!! Which parks benefited from 10.5% more tourists? Not Disney and Sea World. What would have happened if Orlando tourism remained flat, and airlines had not reactivated some of the seats that they had reduced on Orlando flights from 2007-2009? I agree with your point about 2001 to 2011, however, it shouldn't take away much from the idea that HP was open for 6 mos, and the results for BOTH Universal parks are significant in contrast to those of WDW. And, I agree, DL is the true success story for 2010 not Universal. Especially considering DL didn't even have anything added.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Sea world says that TEA is under reporting their numbers because Sea World Ent. Is the worst ( even worse than Disney) at working with them." Interesting. I'll google it to get the details. Thanks. "Which parks benefited from 10.5% more tourists? Not Disney and Sea World." For sure. But that was last year. I'm talking about long term trends, and if you look at the past decade Universal didn't fare that well in 2010 compared with a decade ago, while WDW's numbers are actually ahead significantly, even with a slight decline. "What would have happened if Orlando tourism remained flat, and airlines had not reactivated some of the seats that they had reduced on Orlando flights from 2007-2009?" Good question. I don't doubt that Disney benefited from Potter as more people went to Orlando last year as a result of the incredible popularity of that attraction.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>But that was last year. I'm talking about long term trends, and if you look at the past decade Universal didn't fare that well in 2010 compared with a decade ago, while WDW's numbers are actually ahead significantly, even with a slight decline.<< Sure. At this point though, I'm looking at it from another angle. One that does not contradict what you are saying. How long can Disney keep discounting? What happens when they draw back the discounts? What happens as their parks age and new fresh offerings continue to become few and far between? Universal has their own issues. For sure. I just think they have put themselves in a strategic position to have a healthier (not bigger) operation in the next few years. It use to be that everybody looked to Disney in how to run and grow a business, as far as I am concerned, Universal is the real case study success story post-2007. >>Good question. I don't doubt that Disney benefited from Potter as more people went to Orlando last year as a result of the incredible popularity of that attraction. << To me it just finally proves the debate all of us have had since Pressler put an emphasis on everything but attractions in the parks and Disney brought the half-day park model to market in force. It doesn't matter what fancy NEXTGEN gimmicks you offer, it doesn't matter how polished your trip planning videos are, at the end of the day tourists drop serious $$$$ on places so they can ride rides. Take away the fluff (which is really there to justify jobs) and folks are always after the next best ride. That's why we were right in our criticism of DCA on opening day, that's why Universal has come back from life support with HP, that's why Disney swapped M&Gs with a Mine Train. Disney will remain the big dog, but they are so because of the past efforts, risks, and investments of past leaders within the company. They remain the big dog because in the past, as early as 18 months from opening the park, the Disneyland team begged Walt for rollercoasters, submarine rides, and more dark rides. That past attitude is hard to find down at WDW nowadays.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I always find the numbers a bit laughable. MK just always winds up as #1 no matter what. And yet the crowds you see in Anaheim and Tokyo on what some folks would call average days, you only see at MK on extremely busy days. Of course, Disney never releases numbers. But it also never disputes them, either. About the only interesting tidbits I got from the numbers on the Disney-side was that DAK passed TPFKaTD-MGMS, while I don't for a second buy that either park pulled in close to 10 million folks last year. And that HKDL made it to 15th worldwide, meaning only DSP is not in the top 15 parks on the planet among Disney's chain.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Also amusing to hear on CNBC today that 'Harry Potter's aura' likely had a positive effect on WDW's numbers ...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt ChiMike, there's nothing to argue in post 30. For the most part I agree with you.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I think Kevin Yee did an intersting article a couple of weeks back about if Universal really wants to get into the game they will need to start positioning themselves as a full resort. I expect with a mini-golf course and water park they can do that better but I also think that their promotion of their on-site hotels (which are owned by Lowe's I believe) could be better. All three are great resorts and it could help Universal to start talking in whole-package vacation lingo and start building the trend that Disney did years ago about coming here and staying here. One of the reasons Disney's numbers are where they are is because Disney has people convinced that a Disney vacation is enhanced by staying in one of their resorts.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I seem to recall a long stretch during the mid to late 2000s where Universal was experiencing back to back attendance slides in Florida while WDW was booming. In fact, I believe that it was this dilemma that led to management's decision to reinvest in new attractions (HP for example). That explains why, even with the stellar success of Potter, Universal's numbers are not as strong as they were at the first part of the last decade - they have quite a bit of lost attendance to catch up on.
Originally Posted By dshyates Hans, you are correct about Uni in the early '00s. After NBC bought Universal, they spent 5 years trying to sell off the parks. During that period, not only did they not add any attractions, but they let maintenance slide and the combination was deadly to their attendance numbers. Lack of new offerings and sloppy maintenance, sound familiar?
Originally Posted By dshyates I am betting that Disney's 2011 numbers are gonna be horrendous. They already are showing signs of desperation like raising their ticket prices at the beginning of summer instead of in August like they normally do. They know they have no new attractions to draw in more people and free dining has done all it can do to entice people. So Disney is left with NOTHING to do but further exploit the folks that do choose to come.
