Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Watch the rally over the non-Ground Zero non-mosque." That was so depressing to watch. I think it's interesting to see how many white middle class people have suddenly come unglued over this, the economy, the bank bail outs, etc. thanks to the Republicans and Fox News. I bet that rally would have had half as many protesters, and the black guy would have passed by unnoticed about 3 years ago just before the white middle class got thrown under the bus by the Bush economic agenda. I'm scared for the November elections.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Check out the link, if you dare.<< Ah, but was Donny's group in the video? Remember, people who showed up at that particular "event" were self-selecting. Sensible tea partiers, by definition, would not have been in that crowd.
Originally Posted By ecdc Are there sensible tea partiers? It's a sincere question. At what point does your association with a larger movement enable them or make it tough to take you seriously. At this point, shouldn't the sensible ones break off and form the Cider Party or something? How many videos like this need to pop up, how much hatred has to emerge before people stop saying "Oh well that's just a minority. I'm not like that."
Originally Posted By mawnck >>How many videos like this need to pop up, how much hatred has to emerge before people stop saying "Oh well that's just a minority. I'm not like that."<< Well that video certainly didn't change my opinion that the #1 problem facing the USA nowadays is financial moral hazard, and that Obama has done the exact opposite of fixing that. In that respect, I very much identify with the tea partiers and would even be willing to show up at a meeting or two ... if I wasn't so certain that I'd run into some unrelated issue that would have me sprinting for the door. Like Ground Zero Mosque protesters or extremist pro-lifers. I can't take those people seriously, and like I've said before on may occasions, let me be clear, I'm done with suffering fools gladly. Or politely, or respectfully. I just don't see the sense in it. There's no cure for stupid if the patient won't admit that there's a problem. I rarely run into any politician of any stripe anymore that speaks to my concerns. That doesn't make me a racist, just a very disenfranchised voter (or non-voter, as is looking increasingly likely for this November).
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <In that respect, I very much identify with the tea partiers and would even be willing to show up at a meeting or two ... if I wasn't so certain that I'd run into some unrelated issue that would have me sprinting for the door.> Yeah, but mawnck... quite apart from the wackiness (to be kind) they often espouse on social issues, keep in mind that the tea partiers are called that because their number one issue is "don't raise taxes." They feel they're "Taxed Enough Already" (forget that compared to the rest of the developed world and even compared to our own history, that's not the case). It's nice that they're concerned about the deficit (as am I), but they reject out of hand the remedy that will have to be a part of any serious effort to solve it. They also tend to be older people who don't want social security or medicare touched. They also tend to not want to touch defense spending. Hello? They've been convinced (or have some vague idea) that you can balance the budget without raising taxes on anybody, and just cutting discretionary spending. As I'm sure you know, that isn't going to do it. And the people who (in many cases, anyway) manipulate them behind the scenes - the Dick Armys and Grover Norquists of the world - have them convinced that taxes shouldn't even be raised on the upper 2%, despite the fact that a). The tax law as written in 2001 calls for that to happen; b). the tax rates only reset to the far-from-onerous 90's rate which were NOT a burden on the economy (and were lower than those under Reagan), but that did at least bring in more revenue than we've seen in the last decade. Once again, people are fighting against their own economic interests. If I thought the tea partiers were serious about cutting the deficit, I'd tip my hat. Instead, I think that mostly they're people who are CONCERNED about the deficit, but haven't thought through how you fix it, and just have some very vague ideas about where government money goes, other vague ideas that we're somehow going "socialist," and are mostly out in the streets screaming that their taxes are too high (even when they aren't screaming other, more disturbing things). I really don't think most of them have more than those vague ideas, which is evident when you see them interviewed. The Dick Armys and Grover Norquists, however, know EXACTLY what they're doing.
Originally Posted By Mr X *****despite the fact that a). The tax law as written in 2001 calls for that to happen***** LIAR! You are referring to the "Obama tax hike!", and it's all his fault!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Once again, people are fighting against their own economic interests*** What would the right wing do without their legion of self-destructing idiots!!??
Originally Posted By ecdc Great post, Dabob2. Even the "reasonable" tea partiers seem to be clueless about taxes or even their own taxes. Remember, only 2% knew that Obama lowered middle-class taxes, he didn't raise them. The tea party movement is the very epitome of why I've lost so much hope: Ignorance and truthiness coupled with certainty and a determination to act. In some ways it makes sense; black and white issues are much, much easier to march for or against. Those of us who understand the complexity and nuance are often left wondering how to proceed--especially in the face of such ignorance.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>The tea party movement is the very epitome of why I've lost so much hope: Ignorance and truthiness coupled with certainty and a determination to act.<< Yep, yep and yep. My hope is that this too shall pass, but it's going to be rough sledding the next few election cycles if reasonable people wind up discouraged from participating in the process.
Originally Posted By Oldschool Disney The tea party is a black eye to our country. Thank God for the Democrats.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Yeah Thank God our President is against Gay Marriage.<< A wholly political stance that makes me lose respect for him. I predict when he's out of office he'll have a sudden change of heart, like Bill Clinton.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Yeah Thank God our President is against Gay Marriage." And thank God that our President has no say in the matter.
Originally Posted By Mr3000 >>Yeah Thank God our President is against Gay Marriage.<< This is exhausting EVERY time the right wing trots it out. Our President is wrong on same-sex marriage. Can't be on the same side of every single issue. You know, I remember our last President was occasionally RIGHT (by which I mean correct) on something.
Originally Posted By Donny Post 22 DaBob2 said "If you're against gay marriage you are, at the very least, against gay Americans being treated as equal citizens." So I would like to ask DaBob2 what are your thaughts on President Obama ??????
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Just so it is said I am pro Gay Marriage" Then why are you thanking God that our President isn't? That makes no sense.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin >>Post 22 DaBob2 said "If you're against gay marriage you are, at the very least, against gay Americans being treated as equal citizens." So I would like to ask DaBob2 what are your thaughts on President Obama ??????<< Dude,...the president isn't gay...you're comparing apples and oranges. We don't have to lock step with the guy. George I didn't like broccoli, I do...but I never did judge him for it.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>George I didn't like broccoli, I do...but I never did judge him for it.<<< I did.....
