Originally Posted By Dabob2 <>>Post 22 DaBob2 said "If you're against gay marriage you are, at the very least, against gay Americans being treated as equal citizens." So I would like to ask DaBob2 what are your thaughts on President Obama ??????<< That he's wrong on this issue. With one question mark or six.
Originally Posted By Mr X I get the impression, just a feeling really, that if one were to find onesself deep within Obama's circle of friends one would find that he is (quite carefully and secretly, of course) pretty homophobic and not afraid to crack jokes about it either. I've just known some folks with that personality type before, he's just way too hip to be 100% "okay" with gays. That plus the crack he made once about special olympics...I know it's unrelated but shows a certain lack of compassion for groups he doesn't care about. In any case, if he is anti-gay he hides it well. And I agree with K2M, a lot of his stance on the issue is strictly political.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Apparently not. He wants to eliminate DADT. He is a practicing Christian, so he's beliefs about the "sanctity" of marriage aren't completely surprising to me.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << He wants to eliminate DADT. >> Then why hasn't he done it, and why has he orchestrated a scheme to do it that will be impossible to accomplish after the mid-term elections?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Then why hasn't he done it, and why has he orchestrated a scheme to do it that will be impossible to accomplish after the mid-term elections?" I concede that he's taken way too long, however he has stated that he wants the military to do away with the practice this year and the process of eliminating it has begun. I dislike the slow process, but the fact that it's being reviewed right now by the White House, the Pentagon, and congressional officials is huge step forward from where this debate was when he took office.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I get the impression, just a feeling really, that if one were to find onesself deep within Obama's circle of friends one would find that he is (quite carefully and secretly, of course) pretty homophobic and not afraid to crack jokes about it either.>> Interesting. I haven't gotten that impression. I don't have a read on his feelings. As far as I know, it's equally as likely that he's homophobic as it is that he's going out on the DL. <<I've just known some folks with that personality type before, he's just way too hip to be 100% "okay" with gays.>> What does that mean? It kind of reads, "Since he's black, he must be homophobic." >><< He wants to eliminate DADT. >> Then why hasn't he done it, and why has he orchestrated a scheme to do it that will be impossible to accomplish after the mid-term elections?<< I think he's been pragmatic. He knows that social change takes time. To try to force an elimination of DADT immediately might fail, and might cost him his job (which would prevent him from doing other beneficial things). Instead, he's brought the issue to the front in a way that has allowed military leaders to come out in agreement with him and has allowed enough time for others to come around to seeing the light.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***What does that mean? It kind of reads, "Since he's black, he must be homophobic."*** What gave you that impression, my use of the word "hip"? I know plenty of hip white homophobes, too. Like I said, it's just a feeling I have. I could very well be wrong. But it seems to me his lip service to the gay community along with very little action sort of backs up my feelings. ***I think he's been pragmatic. He knows that social change takes time*** He could be doing far more. He's the freakin COMMANDER in CHIEF, why is HIS military going around taking surveys of soldiers asking them how they feel about showering with gays? Did Truman send around a survey asking soldiers how they feel about bunking with negroes before integrating the troops? As Commander in Chief, why did he not haul in the idiot who came up with that idea and fire him/her for it? That's just one small example. He could also put a moratorium on investigations, he managed to put a moratorium on offshore drilling fast enough. Sure, some right winger judges are fighting it, let them fight this one too. Make everyone put their cards on the table. He could do much, MUCH more.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***What does that mean? It kind of reads, "Since he's black, he must be homophobic."*** What gave you that impression, my use of the word "hip"? I know plenty of hip white homophobes, too. Like I said, it's just a feeling I have. I could very well be wrong. But it seems to me his lip service to the gay community along with very little action sort of backs up my feelings. ***I think he's been pragmatic. He knows that social change takes time*** He could be doing far more. He's the freakin COMMANDER in CHIEF, why is HIS military going around taking surveys of soldiers asking them how they feel about showering with gays? Did Truman send around a survey asking soldiers how they feel about bunking with negroes before integrating the troops? As Commander in Chief, why did he not haul in the idiot who came up with that idea and fire him/her for it? That's just one small example. He could also put a moratorium on investigations, he managed to put a moratorium on offshore drilling fast enough. Sure, some right winger judges are fighting it, let them fight this one too. Make everyone put their cards on the table. He could do much, MUCH more.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Did Truman send around a survey asking soldiers how they feel about bunking with negroes before integrating the troops?" Actually branches of the military did indeed issue surveys prior to Truman issuing an executive order for integrating the military: <a href="http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/07/19/View_from_Washington_Integration/" target="_blank">http://www.advocate.com/News/D...gration/</a>
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<***What does that mean? It kind of reads, "Since he's black, he must be homophobic."*** What gave you that impression, my use of the word "hip"?>> Yes, that exactly. I guess you and I have different understandings of the meaning(s) of the word "hip." To me, it can mean "cool," forward-thinking, open-minded, laid-back, groovy -- which I view as the antithesis of being homophobic. Or it can be a vague reference to one's urban-ness, street cred, blackness; "wit it." <<I know plenty of hip white homophobes, too.>> See, I don't get what "hip" means in that sentence. <<He could be doing far more. He's the freakin COMMANDER in CHIEF, why is HIS military going around taking surveys of soldiers asking them how they feel about showering with gays? [...] He could do much, MUCH more.>> Like Dr Hans Reinhardt, I'm frustrated with the pace of change. The older I get, the more activist I become on this issue. (Or maybe it's not a function of aging. Maybe its simply a reaction to the relatively recent over-taking of our political/legal/social system by churches and bigots.) I don't like the stupid surveys, either. But Obama HAS to move carefully on this. He is already under so much attack for the other things he's done, he can't afford to alienate everyone he would by instantly ending DADT. I think he's being pretty savvy. He has a number of things he wants to do. Ending DADT is one of them. I think he's going about it smartly. Put another way... I'm an American gay guy. So, yeah, I want equal rights for same-sex couples and an end to DADT. I'm also underemployed and I want the economy to bounce back. I've experienced being without health insurance, and I want all Americans to have a safety net. I want to be safe. I want us to get out of the MidEast quagmire. I want the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to be filled with people who are not conservative cartoon characters. I know I want alot. And I'm willing to prioritize.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "So, yeah, I want equal rights for same-sex couples and an end to DADT. I'm also underemployed and I want the economy to bounce back. I've experienced being without health insurance, and I want all Americans to have a safety net. I want to be safe. I want us to get out of the MidEast quagmire. I want the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to be filled with people who are not conservative cartoon characters." It seems that the only one of these issues that is moving forward at all is gay rights. Healthcare reform? Pfffttt! It's a joke. We will never have single payor or universal access. The economy bouncing back and producing good paying jobs? Bzzzzttt! Ending the wars in the middle east? Fat chance. If anything we'll probably invade or at least attack Iran next. Thoughtful elected officials who are not beholden to lobbyists or wacky ideologies (and this goes for both sides of the aisle) at the expense of the American people? Dream on!
