Originally Posted By SuperDry You know, there's no requirement that a Supreme Court nominee already be a judge, let alone a federal judge, or even a lawyer for that matter.
Originally Posted By Mr X True. But in this day and age, I'd guess that fact is largely irrelevant. Hey, here's a thought though. How about Michelle Obama?
Originally Posted By SuperDry I'd prefer a judge with experience and a track record. Even the wingnuts agree on that one - consider what they did to Harriet Meirs
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "What's wrong with presenting abstinence as the best choice, with birth control as second-best? I don't get why it has to be an either/or choice." I think that's exactly the right approach. And it was the one I actually got in school. We were taught all the then-available forms of birth control along with their success/failure rates (and had to know them for the test!) as well as the fact that most did not protect you from STDs, as well as what those STDs could do to you. It seemed like anything but a license to start doing it right away. More like "good stuff to know...somewhere down the road."
Originally Posted By alexbook >>I think that's exactly the right approach. And it was the one I actually got in school. We were taught all the then-available forms of birth control along with their success/failure rates (and had to know them for the test!) as well as the fact that most did not protect you from STDs, as well as what those STDs could do to you. << It's funny. I get the impression that we're of similar ages and backgrounds, but that sounds much more elaborate and useful than what I got. As I remember it, all the boys were taken into the cafeteria one day in sixth grade. We were shown a short film that described reproduction in terms so vague as to be unintelligible. After that, IIRC, we were asked if we had any questions and none of us did (or would admit that we did). I think we had to take an "anonymous" survey (as if the teachers didn't know all our handwriting). Afterwards, I felt acutely embarrassed and as ignorant as I had been beforehand.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>That's pretty much a personal attack bluedevil and it's not welcome here.<< Shows how much you know. I was going to replace "naive" with "unrealistic." All options need to be discussed in the area of sex ed with age-appropriate information. I just will never understand this "burying one's head in the sand" mentality when it comes to the subject. I also think -- and maybe it already is and I'm not aware -- that masturbation really needs serious, non-judgmental discussion as a way to relieve sexual tension. But no, it seems we, as a society, still want to keep it a shameful practice. Look at Jocelyn Elders. She had the right idea, and she vilified for it. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it, ya closet queen.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <What's wrong with presenting abstinence as the best choice, with birth control as second-best? I don't get why it has to be an either/or choice. I'm going to get attacked from both sides now, aren't I? ;-)> Nope, that's exactly what I like.
Originally Posted By alexbook Wow. Mr X and utahjosh agreed on something. I feel like Jimmy Carter at Camp David.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Alex, we had that same film (actually a film strip- remember them?) in sixth grade! What I described above was high school. Jr high was something in between.
Originally Posted By alexbook Wow, film strips. Yeah, I remember them, but I hadn't thought about them in ages. I'm feeling this sudden urge to rush over to Facebook and see if there's a "film strips" page I can become a fan of. Either I never got the follow-up stuff in junior high and high school, or I've completely suppressed the memory. I wouldn't rule out either possibility.
Originally Posted By ecdc Abstinence-only education does not work. Period. End of story. The real agenda here is religious fundamentalism cloaked in concern for teen pregnancy and STDs. Europe has the same kind of rates of sexual activity as Americans, but a much higher rate of use of condoms, and conversely, lower abortion rates. Birth control education solves the issues abstinence only proponents claim to be concerned about, but they reject it because their real issue is that people who aren't married shouldn't be getting it on because a bronze-age book written by old white men says so.
Originally Posted By mele I find it funny that some people seem to think that all liberals want to their kids to go out and have lots of sex as soon as they're able to do so. Every parent I know wants/teaches their kids to wait until they're adults. However, most of us aren't stupid enough to leave it at that and we're not afraid to teach our children about what they need to know. That is our jobs afterall, teaching our children the things they need to know for adulthood. What kind of crappy parent waits until their children already are adults to teach them? (I think we know the answer to that.)
Originally Posted By ecdc Oh, and I wanted to respond to Josh's comment about self-control. Most reasonable people believe in self-control. It's a myth - similar to one pushed by abortion opponents - that people who support comprehensive sex ed somehow don't believe in self-control. I hear it in this Utah culture all the time - they justify extremist lifestyles (i.e., abstinence only, prohibition from alcohol, etc.) by insisting that the only other option is the other extreme. Therefore, anyone who has sex outside of marriage is a whore, or disease-ravaged, or pregnant, or anyone who takes a drink is an alcoholic. Obviously most people live somewhere in between and do so happily and successfully. The consequences that people like Josh insist can happen usually don't. Most people know how to have a responsible sexual relationship and aren't out there screwing everything that moves.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I find it funny that some people seem to think that all liberals want to their kids to go out and have lots of sex as soon as they're able to do so. Every parent I know wants/teaches their kids to wait until they're adults.<< I should've read this before I posted my second response. This is exactly what I'm getting at - well said. I've found that people need to demonize those that disagree with them when they base their beliefs on moral or religious principles. It's not just that we disagree and have a different approach to the world because I do plan to teach my children sex ed. I'm fundamentally wrong because someone else gets their beliefs from God, and God can't be wrong. It's a real problem because part of getting along in this world requires compromise and understanding, something a lot of religious believers explicitly denounce because their beliefs are rooted in absolutism. That's how we end up with dangerous prosecutors like the joker in the OP.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Wow, film strips. Yeah, I remember them, but I hadn't thought about them in ages. >>> I remember there being three types that had accompanying audio. The most rudimentary kind had an audio track on cassette with a "beep" that would cue the filmstrip projector's operator to advance to the next frame. If you had a deluxe model of projector, it had the cassette player built in, and would "hear" the beep and advance itself. If you had a super-deluxe projector and filmstrip, the cue to advance to the next frame was not audible and it just happened at the right time as if by magic.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 We had the first type. And not cassettes either; vinyl records. <feels old>
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 I remember in High School Health class that we had to watch this video about this teenage couple that don't use BC and then end up having a baby. It was the funniest film ever, not because of the subject matter, but because the acting was horrible and the whole time the girl was pregnant she kept screaming at the guy to get her potato chips. It was affectionately referred to as "The Potato Chip Movie." Back to the topic, regardless of what they decide to teach my son and stepdaughter in school, I will be teaching them that, while abstinence is the only way to completely prevent pregnancy and STDs, they will have to make the choice as to whether they are going to have sex. I will do everything I can to convince them to wait until they are ready and to be as safe as they can be if they do choose to sleep with someone. Personally, I would be thrilled if they waited until they were 30 and married for 2 years before they decided to have sex but I am realistic enough to know that at some point in high school or college they will probably go for it and my job as a mom is to make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "What's wrong with presenting abstinence as the best choice, with birth control as second-best?" You wrongly assume abstinence is the first-best choice. It is or isn't, depending on your values. "Fact is, abstinence IS preferable (aside from a long term, monogamous relationship where in the case of a heterosexual couple a child is desired)." But not everybody prefers a long-term monogamous relationship where a child is desired. I happen to prefer a long-term monogamous relationship where a child is *not* preferred. Others prefer not to be tied down to one man or woman. That doesn't make them sluts or whores. You don't teach that there is only one lifestyle choice and hammer it into the kid's heads that it is the only correct one. You get issues where people lead a double life, trying to be the family man while satisfying natural urges to screw everything that moves. It results in far more pain and suffering than the alternative, living your life that you want to, with people who are like-minded (as long as you're not intruding on anyone's freedoms or whatever). I support objective, non-judgmental sex education.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But not everybody prefers a long-term monogamous relationship where a child is desired. I happen to prefer a long-term monogamous relationship where a child is *not* preferred. Others prefer not to be tied down to one man or woman. That doesn't make them sluts or whores.*** That's not what I meant at all. I suppose "preferable" was a poor choice of words, but all I meant by it was that it's preferable (read "safest") if you want to eliminate ANY risk of STD's and/or pregnancy. Nothing more.
