Originally Posted By X-san ***Thanks for calling me a liar Road Trip, appreciate it....*** If you were smart, you'd have bet him "major money" as he put it, before laying your cards on the table. But then again, I won a $10,000 bet here on LP (no joke), but I have yet to collect. Funny how that works out.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 But then again, I won a $10,000 bet here on LP (no joke), but I have yet to collect.<< Is that the bet you made about the loop going into DL's Space Mountain?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip WK... I was NOT calling you a liar. I thought you had been duped by an urban legend which has happened to all of us. I see nothing in your post that would indicate what you initially said is true. Sure, if you overdose on Gatorade when you were in an environment where you were NOT sweating out salt to beat hell it could potentially be dangerous. But in a desert environment I have a hard time buying it. If you could provide some source to your original statement I would consider myself justly chastened. In the meantime, my urban legend statement stands with absolutely no thought that you are a liar.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Is that the bet you made about the loop going into DL's Space Mountain?*** Nope, it was a bet with a not vanished poster who insisted that the line for the Nemo Sub ride at Disneyland would be AT LEAST three hours long all day every day for the next ten years. It took far less than a year for me to win...but somehow the guy just disappeared (go figure).
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 In the meantime, my urban legend statement stands with absolutely no thought that you are a liar. << I understand, I figured this was WE so I had to either call you a liar or liberal.... my apologies...;o)
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I understand, I figured this was WE so I had to either call you a liar or liberal....>> According to some here that is pretty much the same thing! <<my apologies...;o)>> Thanks for the apology although I didn't expect one. I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains About 10 years ago there was a simular injury that made the news where the child actually died - I remember the story only because one of my sons friends had been hit in the chest the same day and had a bruise above his heart and we were all realizing how lucky this friend was. For some time after that there was a campaign of sorts to have the pitchers wear a chest protector - but the kids didn't want to wear them and the parents and the leagues weren't willing to force it as a rule - In girls Softball the helmets must have a face guard and now the pitchers are being introduced to these <a href="http://www.athleticsgalore.com/softball/game_face_pitchers_protective_ma.htm" target="_blank">http://www.athleticsgalore.com...e_ma.htm</a> These are being brought in and are said to be mandatory in the next year or so. These were created because of injuries - not to sound sexist but it seems like the girl leagues are more willing to put in steps to protect the girls than the boys. I say this as the parent of 3 boys and 1 girl - When the boys played it was come-on be tough it really doesn't hurt that much - with the girls it's are you sure you're okay to keep playing.
Originally Posted By barboy You know something X, I have been on the receiving end of both unbelievably hard hit line drives, as a pitcher no less, all the way up through division 1 college ball and semi pro leagues and two frivolous lawsuits and this whole topic hits very close to home. People who perpetuate, love, condone or defend frivolous claims almost always have never been sued unfairly themselves. I'm guessing, based on odds, our skipper here has never been subjected to either---a hard line drive nor a ridiculous lawsuit. These people knew the risks(or should have known) and now that things went south they want others to pay for their mistakes. I have sympathay for the kid, who wouldn't! But I have no sympathy for the main decision makers who are looking to make others pay up.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper barboy's response doesn't surprise me and I'll leave it at that. Do I think there are frivolous lawsuits? Of course. I work for a municipality that gets sued all the time for frivolous things. We also get sued for things that aren't frivolous, we knew about them, made a conscious decision to ignore the issue for one reason or another, and we deserve whatever penalty might come to us. I'll give you an example. I knew our playgrounds weren't accessible to the disabled. I made a case to our officials that we needed to do something about it. Nothing was done (for purely financial reasons) and we got sued. Guess what we are doing now? We are making all of our playgrounds accessible. Another example: Many communities in the US are requiring children to wear bicycle helmets. Now, when I grew up I didn't have a bicycle helmet and when I fell I guess I was supposed to suck it up and be tough. Well, some children sustained some pretty serious injuries...enough to get some company out there designing bicycle helmets. Those helmets, as it turns out, actually helped some people so some government entities have legislated their use into their city codes. Now, as a society we can choose to ignore the laws and have our children do as we did...which is fine and dandy until it is your child that dies from a head injury. Now, when you participate in any kind of activity is there a certain level of "participate at your own risk" that should be adhered to? Sure. What I see here is a situation that most in the baseball community have known about for 30 years or more. Some studies have been done, some debates have raged, certain organizations have actually voted on the issue and...to this point...aluminum bats are still used. Again, as I said, if you are a proponent of getting rid of the aluminum bats then likely the only way that will be accomplished is through a lawsuit. I will have thousands of kids in my parks this afternoon using aluminum bats. If one of them is killed by a line drive I would be willing to bet you that the parent will delve into the issue having only given it a passing thought previously and he/she will be considering a lawsuit....that will likely name me and my City as defendants as well since we allow the activity to occur on our property.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper And again, as mentioned, I was a baseball player (and used wood bats...which worked just fine) and I have also been on the receiving end of frivolous lawsuits. barboy..I'm glad you were never injured seriously in a game...I really am. But for the parent who's child is dead or crippled from a line drive that averages 3.5 mph difference between a ball hit with an aluminum bat and a wood bad might have been the difference in split second reaction time to avoid the fatal blow. And, we as an industry KNOW that difference and, as of yet, have chosen to ignore it. Again, I'm not trying to argue the merits of this particular case. The kid may have had a pre-existing condition that would have caused harm if he had been hit by a soccer ball instead of a baseball. Who knows? But, I think the core issue has merit making it a far cry from a frivolous issue.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 But, I think the core issue has merit making it a far cry from a frivolous issue.<< The minute they threw Little League in there it became frivolous....
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Ok...I understand what you are saying. But here is the deal: Little League has "officially endorsed" this product, apparently, as being "safe for children". Was that likely a marketing ploy just to draw attention to Little League? Probably. But what a STUPID thing to do. Again, drawing on my government connection, we get residents asking us all the time for recommendations of companies they should use for various things (plumbers for repairs, landscapers for lawncare, etc). We don't make any recommendations. Why? Because, if something goes wrong then you can bet your assets that the City will be sued because we recommended the product/service. What is the difference between a promotion and an endorsement of safety? I couldn't tell you since I'm not a lawyer. But, I have enough common sense to know that I would NEVER guarantee something to be safe. What further makes Little League stupid, in my opinion, is endorsing an aluminum bat as safe when they themselves have had internal conversations about the safety of aluminum bats, the NCAA has had ongoing disussions about it, etc. I mean, that really flies in the face of common sense.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 <a href="http://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/charge-little-league-didnt-tea.html" target="_blank">http://www.overlawyered.com/20...tea.html</a> Another lawsuit against Little League, this time because they didn't teach the kid how to slide properly... I am waiting for someone to sue Little League because they didnt teach him the skills to go pro...
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Believe it or not, there have been lawsuits against travel teams for children not getting playing time (as they vie for collegiate attention). Frivolous? Yes. At issue here is the well documented debate over aluminum bats at all levels of play below the Major Leagues. As I said, I'm a Parks and Recreation Director and I'd be willing to bet that a good number of my peers are interested in the outcome of this case. It might be considered frivolous to some...and on the surface I can see why. I think Little League is a good program on the whole. I played Little League ball myself. But, I do think this issue should be pursued in some form. I have children who are closing in on Little League age and if they could play safer then I'm all for it. I'm a dad. Why wouldn't I be?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I think Little League is getting sued because the plaintiff's attorney figures there might be deep pockets via the insurer. Depending on how a bat gets a "Little League" stamp on it, they may be able to get dismissed.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad My sons play baseball, my daughter plays fast pitch softball. I am in favor of alloy/metal bats over wood. In fact "big barrel" metal bats are going to be allowed in the fall of '08 in my sons' league.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Any particular reason?>> The man drives a Suburban and has 7 kids. Obviously a bigger is better kind of guy. If you can't keep up, take notes. ;-)
