"The DCA Problem" - $650 million to fix it

Originally Posted By fkurucz

>> I can't imagine the PPH is that profitable for Disney in its present configuration. <<

Its the lowest priced DLR hotel. If you're going to replace a hotel with a higher priced one, this would be it.

I've often wondered why Disney doesn't just buy out some of the Harbor Blvd properties and build a new resort hotel on that side of the street. I'm sure for the right price the property owners would sell.

 

Originally Posted By fkurucz

>>It would be cool if some sort of recreation lake can be fit in between the replacements for the DL Hotel and the PP Hotel. That would definitely add to the resort feel.<<

It would, but if they can stuff even more $300+ per night rooms into the complex they will do that instead. All for the lack of space.

 

Originally Posted By disneywatcher

>> There simply isn't anyone left with much political clout that has was attached to the DCA project back then, and so there are no more egos or bullheaded opinions to get in the way of remaking the park into something that can finally be successful. <<

The story of the flop that is DCA wouldn't have been written in the first place if the opinions (and influence) of various hacks hadn't risen to the top several years ago. Many of those incompetents are now gone, thank God, but their handiwork unfortunately lives on. Worse of all, I have no doubt there remains some executives and planners (if not Imagineers) employed by the DisCo who just don't get it, who still believe DCA is hunky-dory.

As for the rumor that $650 million may be the price tag for giving DCA some long overdue value and credibility, no one can be sure if that figure also includes the cost of building new hotels or other resort-related development (miceage.com also mentioned a possible expansion of the monorail). If so, those dollars easily will be stretched to the breaking point, or before DCA truly reaches the status of a first-class, Disney-esque theme park.

And it doesn't help if planners don't even want to devote all the land currently set aside for the Timon parking lot (near the Tower of Terror) for additions to relatively small DCA. If so, that suggests to me some people in the DisCo still are not as underwhelmed by the park as they should be.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<I have to wonder why would they demolish hotels with above market prices and occupancy rates? >>

Imagine a version of the GF, DLP Hotel, HKDL Hotel and the new TDL Hotel going up now ... sitting right where the DLH stands now ... pretty much what was gonna happen in the Westcot plans.

Disney often discounts rooms as low as $59 at PP and $89 at DLH over the past few years to get people in them. You don't see them doing that at the GC, which has much higher rack rates to begin with.

Disney can only push so far with the older hotels. When you can get a room at the Hyatt nearby for less than half the price ... and with new properties all around ... they are going to lose major market share.

<<In order to justify this the replacement hotels will need to be even more expensive. Perhaps they believe that there is a market in Anaheim for more rooms in the GC price category or even higher!>>

They do. And they're right.

<<DCA might have been a flop, but the GC appears to have been a roaring success. They are asking $390 per night for a standard room mid February. Mind boggling, to say the least.>>

I wouldn't pay that for a standard room there or any other Disney resort because I realize their service is in no way 5-star and in many cases not even 3 or 4 ... but there's no doubt the GC is by far the best property in the DL area ... nothing comes close unless you head to Huntington Beach or down to So OC.

 

Originally Posted By woody

Even though DCA is a flop, I think it's a good flop. The park is mildly enjoyable, although rather dull in execution.

DCA doesn't make you interested in spending time there except to hurry up and finish it and walk right out to Disneyland where the real fun is.

 

Originally Posted By nemopoppins

>>I've often wondered why Disney doesn't just buy out some of the Harbor Blvd properties and build a new resort hotel on that side of the street. I'm sure for the right price the property owners would sell.<<

Or they could use their muscle. "Sell to us or we're moving the entrance."

That would be good if they demolish the PPH. After building a nice new replacement hotel they'd probably wait a while to see how things go before they attempted the DLH. During all that time DLH will be the bargain hotel. I'd like that.

I think they should use the Timon lot to enlarge DCA. They should use the Pumbaa lot (is that the name of the one across the way) for a new hotel. They can extend the monorail to it so they can justify making it expensive and convenient. I'm sure Anaheim wouldn't mind the Monorail going over its roads.

 

Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

<Disney often discounts rooms as low as $59 at PP and $89 at DLH over the past few years to get people in them. You don't see them doing that at the GC, which has much higher rack rates to begin with.>

I don't think it's the age of the hotels or even the decor that makes the GCH command higher prices than the DLH and the PPH. I think it's location. I don't think any hotels built on those sites could charge nearly as much as the GCH unless they rerouted the monorail to service them.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

"I'm really not a fan of Morgans hotels (formerly Ian Schraeger). The rooms are typically TINY, the decor spartan... but they tell you that's cool somehow, and people buy it."

Which another good reason why I think Al's claim that a boutique hotel is being considered for DLR sounds suspicious.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

But other boutique hotels I've been in are quite nice. "Boutique" in the industry covers a lot of ground - all it really means is "not a lot of rooms so we can (in theory) provide a more personalized experience."

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

Al was handed a line, and he printed it.

I see basically none of it happening.

 

Originally Posted By fkurucz

<Disney often discounts rooms as low as $59 at PP and $89 at DLH over the past few years to get people in them. You don't see them doing that at the GC, which has much higher rack rates to begin with.>

I have never seen rooms quoted at those prices. Sure, if you're an AP and you know who and when to call you might get a deal, but I suspect that most people who lodge in the PP and DLH pay much more than $59. I have checked repeatedly for the past few months (we are going in two weeks) and they always seem to hover around $200 a night.

 

Originally Posted By fkurucz

>>Imagine a version of the GF, DLP Hotel, HKDL Hotel and the new TDL Hotel going up now ... sitting right where the DLH stands now ... pretty much what was gonna happen in the Westcot plans.<<

I would expect no less. And rack rates starting around $500.

Thank goodness for Harbor Blvd.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<I have never seen rooms quoted at those prices. Sure, if you're an AP and you know who and when to call you might get a deal, but I suspect that most people who lodge in the PP and DLH pay much more than $59. I have checked repeatedly for the past few months (we are going in two weeks) and they always seem to hover around $200 a night.>>

Granted those were AP rates I quoted to make my point. But you can almost always get great rates at those two hotels, despite the absurdly high rack rate.

Last year, I stayed at the DLH on July 17th and next few days for $129 a night ... and that was booked only a few weeks prior on Travelocity.

Frequently, those type of rates are out there. You just have to search a bit ... and not just call Disney and take the rate they toss out.

FWIW, finding a discounted room at the GC are much more difficult.

<<I would expect no less. And rack rates starting around $500.>>

Nah. They will be lower ... likely $300 range to start and UP!

<<Thank goodness for Harbor Blvd.>>

I'm sure this is why Disney is reacting by going up market. Like I said, there's only so much Disney can do with the old properties. And with new, much nicer and much CHEAPER lodgings just a short walk away down Harbor ... well, Disney can't win that battle in the long run. Why pay $250 a night or $300 or more for DLH when you can stay at the brand new Doubletree Suites ... or Hilton ... or Residence Inn ... or Marriott Suites ... for far less.

Disney must go up market.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

^^Oops ... Hilton isn't new ... was thinking of the Sheraton that replaced the old West Coast Anaheim.

 

Originally Posted By bean

why would they demolish the hotel towers?


easy

build a new hotel with lower maintenance problems and smaller rooms which could fetch same amount per night or more depending on amenities.

This all done within the same amount of land it occupies now.


The Disneyland hotel property is quite huge and many of its old buildings have quite a bit of wasted space that could easily be occupied with more hotel rooms and better banquet halls that are equivalent to the ones at the GCH.

Demolishing Each tower one by one would be the best idea in all these plans.

Orinal plans called for the disneyland htel to be demolished and a more Grand hotel built at the far end of the property (basically toward the back of the existing infrustructure where the banquet rooms and convention space is) this would allow for a more pleasant transition into garden areas and a better layed out DTD expansion.

 

Originally Posted By fkurucz

>>build a new hotel with lower maintenance problems and smaller rooms which could fetch same amount per night or more depending on amenities.<<

It all boils down to ROI (return on investment). Say it will cost $300 million to replace the DLH with a new and better hotel, and assume that the expected ROI is 10% (pretty average). That would mean that in order to justify the hotel, it would have to generate an extra $30 million in profit (over what the DLH generates currently) per year. This would be about an extra $80,000 profit per day. If you have 1000 rooms that's $80 per room. If you have 500 rooms then its $160 extra prit per room. So I'm guessing that the new hotel would have to be pricier than the DLH.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

^ But if you can get cost savings, such as using the space more wisely, and add additional rooms and meeting space, you can add additional revenue, and not need to raise the prices as much.

Also, savings in energy costs and plumbing repairs due to modern techniques also add to the bottom line.

But yes, of course Disney would invest in new building only if they thought they could raise the average price of a room.

But then again, new hotels are being built in the area, such as the new Doubletree on Harbor. Brand new building, large rooms, restuarants and meeting space on the ground level, and charges about $100 less per room than the Disney Hotels do.

So other companies see a profit in buiulding new towers in Anaheim, and expect to get a good ROI.

 

Originally Posted By bean

anaheim has always been behind in the amount of rooms available in close proximity of the convention center.

Although the convention center was expanded and upgraded the people that run it have alwyas said that they have not been able to accomodate large conventions because of lack of hotel rooms in the vicinity.

So what has been happening is that surrounding cities have been taking advantage in building hotels that anaheim should have done to begin with.

Lets see what happens once garden walk opens and adds more hotel rooms. Disney can not stay behind.

 

Originally Posted By woody

It makes sense to double the number of hotel rooms on-site to take advantage of the convention goers, who may also be tempted visit Disneyland within walking distance. They should have a south park entrance.

I wonder when the demolition will happen.

 

Originally Posted By SuperDry

Regarding the use of the Timon lot, I like the idea of what someone else already suggested: if they are going to use some space for a boutique hotel, then build it so that the "ground floor" is a couple of storeys above the actual ground, such that a dark ride, dining, or something else for the park can be put in at ground level. This would allow a hotel (boutique or otherwise) to be put in without taking up valuable space from potential park expansion. It's probably a completely impractical idea, but it still sounds neat