Originally Posted By TP2000 >>"I'd be interested in learning some highway death stats for then vs now before commenting further on your vaunted "improvements".<< Mr X, you aren't going to like the highway fatality statistics, as they paint a rather grim and deadly portrait of highway safety of the 1950's. 1957 American Highways: 171 Million US Population 70 Million Licensed Vehicles in US 38,702 Highway Fatalities in '57 6.0 Deaths per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Driven 2009 American Highways: 305 Million US Population 254 Million Licensed Vehicles in US 33,962 Highway Fatalities in '09 1.13 Deaths per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Driven Even after almost quadrupling the number of vehicles on the road, and adding hundreds of thousands of miles of new roads to drive on, America's highways and byways are vastly more safe and far less deadly today than they were when Disneyland was new. I can enjoy nostalgia as much as the next guy, and after a second cocktail I can do a mean Mashed Potato or the Twist, but I am always baffled by folks who don't like to hear that almost everything in common life is far safer, easier, cheaper and in more abundant supply today than 50 years ago. And barring a massive meteor strike, most things in common life will very likely be even safer, easier, cheaper and in more abundant supply 50 years from now. Cheer up gang, things ain't that bad. Anyone want the amazing statistics of how much cheaper and more efficient a big refrigerator is today compared to the 1950's? I can go on and on with this stuff.
Originally Posted By Mr X Why on Earth would you assume I wouldn't like to hear about marked improvements in highway safety. As I mentioned before, you are quite correct (and I appreciate seeing those stats...it's good to know that safety has improved lots over the years!), but that's a relatively minor point in comparison to what we've given up in this day and age. ***And barring a massive meteor strike, most things in common life will very likely be even safer, easier, cheaper and in more abundant supply 50 years from now*** I worry lots more about peak oil and global warming than I do some random catastrophic meteor (though that's certainly an outside possibility). I certainly do hope you are right! The evidence I've seen paints a grimmer picture though. But anyway, yes you are definitely correct about improved car safety! Yay! And cheaper refrigerators too! (what about food?)
Originally Posted By TP2000 Food??? Food prices have plunged across the developed world, particularly in the last 20 years. Cheaper across the board... Bushel of Wheat 1957: $2.10 2011: $7.60 (latest trade from yesterday) 1957 Inflation Adjusted Price: $15.80 in '09 Dollars (Wheat prices have risen this winter due to a bad '10 harvest in Russia and a weak dollar. Prices for most of the last decade were around $5.00 a bushel) Gallon of Milk 1957: $1.00 2011: $3.59 1957 Inflation adjusted price, $7.53 in '09 dollars Dozen Eggs 1957: 82 cents 2011: $2.50 1957 Inflation adjusted price, $6.18 in '09 dollars McDonalds Cheeseburger, 1.6 ounce patty 1957: 19 cents 2011: 99 cents 1957 Inflation adjusted price, $1.43 in '09 dollars You can plug in all sorts of products; cereals, cookies, soft drinks, etc. Almost every one of them has fallen by quite a bit in 50 years. Meat and produce prices have fallen the most actually, with a far broader array of fruits and vegetables now available year round due to cheap jet transport and vastly improved rail networks from the opposite hemisphere and southern climes. There's a full market basket of foods available now, at prices cheaper than they've ever been. Interestingly, the average full-time income in 1957 was $4,454. Adjusted for inflation that would be $33,558 in '09 dollars. But the average full-time income in '09 was $39,336, higher than the adjusted '57 wage. And yet so many folks complain it takes "two wage earners to maintain our middle class lifestyle now" and many wives go out into the workforce after having children. The reality is that those two wage earners are needed to buy all the luxuries and wild technology and extra services that most people now think is neccesary for "middle class"; 3G cell phone service, high speed home internet, 300 cable TV channels, health club memberships, Disneyland annual passes, satellite radio bills, expensive foods labeled "artisanal", Gymboree "play dates" instead of a stroll to a local playground, etc., etc., etc. Getting back to the initial point here, if you want to live like the average family did in 1957, you certainly can. And you are going to save a TON of money each year living like the 50's, since buying the much simpler goods and services they used is far, far cheaper today than it was in 1957. Not as safe, not as comfortable, not as efficient, but at least it's MUCH cheaper. But that Disneyland Annual Pass definitely has to go. ;-)
Originally Posted By Mr X Interesting stats there TP2000, except that where I live a McDonalds cheeseburger costs $1.45... Oops, that screws up your inflation adjusted price nicely eh? No, I'm not trying to get into an argument with you over the relative value of a dollar these days, or whether your inflation adjusted prices are a load of crap to begin with, or anything like THAT... Just saying it's not as simple as you make it out to be, by and large.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But the average full-time income in '09 was $39,336, higher than the adjusted '57 wage.<< That's the average, which presumably includes Lloyd Blankfein and Co. Do you happen to know what the median is/was? >>where I live a McDonalds cheeseburger costs $1.45<< I though that where you live they didn't have McDonalds cheeseburgers in 1957. ;-) >>But that Disneyland Annual Pass definitely has to go.<< SOCIALIST!
Originally Posted By Mr X ＊＊＊That's the average, which presumably includes Lloyd Blankfein and Co. Do you happen to know what the median is/was?＊＊＊ Oh, no you didn't!! ***I though that where you live they didn't have McDonalds cheeseburgers in 1957. ;-)*** D'oh... You're right about that!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Oh, no you didn't!!<< You can take the poster out of World Events, but you can't take World Events out of the poster. :-D
Originally Posted By avimagine I Guess cars last a little longer now, didn't most people buy a new car every couple of years back then? Now it seems 60 mo loans are the norm for some people.
Originally Posted By TP2000 I suppose in some urban areas and downtown locations, or extreme rural areas, McDonalds does not have its signature "Dollar Menu" that it bases national campaigns on and charges more than that for its basic cheeseburger. If you are paying $1.45 for that product (and really, why would you?) at a unique location that doesn't have a Dollar Menu, then it's at least kept up with inflation since '57. And yes, automobiles are far more reliable today than they were just 20 years ago, much less 50 years ago. In the 1950's a car that got to 100,000 miles was considered dead, if it hadn't already died at 75,000 miles. Today cars don't even need to change their spark plugs until 100,000 miles. There's a reason why odometers only went up to 99,999 miles back in the day; it was rare the car would exist that long, and if it did no one would want to buy it anyway. ;-) Again, the endless statistics and basic experience all proves that our lives have improved dramatically in the last 50 years when it comes to standard of living, cost of living, life expectancy, public safety, and on and on. And yet there are some folks that seem to just hate that fact, and want to pretend that we live in some horrific environment and that everything was so much better back in the 1950's. For the most part, it wasn't. Cheer up gang, it's much better living today. Wanna go a round with air polution? That one has improved dramatically as well in the last 25 years. There's an entire generation of people living today that have no idea what a "Smog Alert" is, after those physically painful events were common occurrences in the 1950's, 60's and 70's.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "The reality is that those two wage earners are needed to buy all the luxuries and wild technology and extra services that most people now think is neccesary for "middle class"; 3G cell phone service, high speed home internet, 300 cable TV channels, health club memberships, Disneyland annual passes, satellite radio bills, expensive foods labeled "artisanal", Gymboree "play dates" instead of a stroll to a local playground, etc., etc., etc." Healthcare.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Health care costs are huge. HUGE. But like automotive technology, if you want to go back to a 1957 level of technology and facilities and care, the bills go way down for you. It can be tough to do though... Just try and find a hospital that still has 1950's "wards" where you lie with a dozen other people in a big sterile room. In 2011 the semi-private room with just one other person is a bit of a turn-off for most people checking in to a hospital now. The private room tethered to a full complement of computerized monitoring equipment is becoming the norm, or at least what many patients expect now. Knock off every test and scan and digital imaging and specialist and internal robot mini-camera and Wonderdrug prescription your HMO can throw at you (and their billing center), and just ask for a basic annual physical and occasional hospital visits for broken bones or baby deliveries, maybe an apendicitis. Ask for a bed in a shared ward room with no TV, and see the odd look from the check-in nurse. The bills for 1950's basic care are tiny in comparison to all of the staff and facilities and cutting edge procedures the average middle class American has access to now. And expects. There's also a few little things never dreamed of in 1957 to help pay your hospital bills if you don't have private insurance; Medicare, Medicaid, and MediCal.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Back to the video of the cute 1950s family -- The Barstows. Check out the movie at about the 22:00 -- they get on the horsedrawn trolley, and as they pass by the Penny Arcade entrance -- what is that hanging in the entrance. Looks like a few chickens -- LOL!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt OMG... those DO look like chickens. Why would they be there of all places?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Also -- read in the comments section that around 20:20 -- an 11 year old Steve Martin (comedian, actor, writer and banjo player) can be seen selling guide books in the park. Apparently verified, in this post... <a href="http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/steve-martin-in-disneyland-dream.html" target="_blank">http://www.cartoonbrew.com/dis...eam.html</a>
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I Guess cars last a little longer now, didn't most people buy a new car every couple of years back then?" My car is 13 years old and running great, but of course, it's a Japanese model.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Also -- read in the comments section that around 20:20 -- an 11 year old Steve Martin (comedian, actor, writer and banjo player) can be seen selling guide books in the park.> That's pretty cool.
