Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^ This is far from an America only issue - but we are such a large quotient in thecalc of world economy the effect here drives others.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Of course our gloom and doom projections about what MIGHT happen had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we could make a boat-load of money if everyone was scared.<< So who's making a boatload of money now? Besides Hormel, I mean. <a href="http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/food-drink/times-must-be-hard--americans-are-buying-spam-again-1573779.html" target="_blank">http://www.independent.ie/life...779.html</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So who's making a boatload of money now?>> All the financial companies and lenders who got us into this mess by making loans they never should have made. Maybe in the future automobile companies who got into this mess by building cars no one wanted. Normally, those companies would have gone bankrupt. But by spreading gloom and doom America has been convinced that we must save them or life as we know it will come to an end. Yup. They're making massive money by promoting fear. They make us Y2K guys look like a bunch of amateurs.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But by spreading gloom and doom America has been convinced that we must save them or life as we know it will come to an end.<< But I'm spreading doom and gloom *because* we're bailing the weasels out. In the end, I don't think they'll make a boatload of money, regardless of Congress's best efforts. Quite the contrary. A sinking tide lowers all boats.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Yes, I realize a foreclosed property impacts everyone on the block, so the impact is greater than the foreclosure rate. But that still leaves many people in areas where foreclosure is not a problem." Here's one for you. We live in a city, not a zip code or a certain area, that has had a lot of foreclosures. Personally, we're not in foreclosure. Never been late. Not even upside down. But because we live in a CITY that has had them. Amex and Prudential Visa have cut us off. And we gross $190K a year. I am now having a hard time getting credit because of the city I live in.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Maybe in the future automobile companies who got into this mess by building cars no one wanted. >> It seems to me that the automobile companies were building plenty of cars that people wanted when gas was cheap. Then the government put a massive tax break for small businesses on SUVs so that even more people wanted those vehicles. Instead of government providing incentives for people to buy small vehicles, we did the opposite. That worked fine until gas was $3 a gallon. The auto companies aren't the only ones to blame here.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 the US auto companies still suffer from a quality perception- one even their CEO's recently admitted was caused by none other then themselves - when they were more than happy to sell us crap - even when they had the advantage of not having heavy import taxes slapped on them. Then Honda and Toyota ( and others ) slapped them silly building superior cars - and building them in the US where they created jobs. yes, they have improved their quality - but some customers they lost for life.As someone who has purchased over 30 new cars in my lifetime ( car guy ) - and grew up a died in the wool GM guy - thelast GM car I bought was over 15 years ago - I got tired of junk at the time.... Will I buy another GM car in the future ? They're going to have to bowl me over - grudges last a while.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Here's one for you. We live in a city, not a zip code or a certain area, that has had a lot of foreclosures. Personally, we're not in foreclosure. Never been late. Not even upside down. But because we live in a CITY that has had them. Amex and Prudential Visa have cut us off. And we gross $190K a year. I am now having a hard time getting credit because of the city I live in.< the credit card companies are out there now acting tough- but in many cases doing so to the wrong people. I have never (knock on wood) had a late payment in my life - credit score over 800 - and about 6 weeks ago I get my FIA AMEX billandmy interest rates was raised from 6.9% to 20.5% ! I assumed it was a mistake- but no- I call them and they tell me they are re-evaluating their credit policies and since my balance was more than 50% of my limit ( just put in new furnance ) -this was their policy. So I gave them my policy.I took the money from savings -paid the card off and cut it up and mailed it to their CEO.I congratulated him on excellent decision making and agreed people like me should not have their credit line. I received a phone call from a regional manager apologizing and saying the 'computers' choose where they apply policies ( nice blame shift ) -and that sometimes they make mistakes...but then told me that even people with excellent credit can be a risk. He offered a return to my % rate and a higher limit - I declined. These companies are clueless - and unless there are controls put on them -- the next crisis will be intiated by them, and that is not the sky falling, that is a fact.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "These companies are clueless - and unless there are controls put on them -- the next crisis will be intiated by them, and that is not the sky falling, that is a fact." Amen. At first, Amex told us it was our zip code. Then, as our Prudential Visa is also with FIA, FIA yesterday told us it was the city, not just the zip. They also doubled our interest rate. Just because we wanted to aggravate ourselves, we called Amex back, because they had also declined a large purchaseof ours that we intended to pay off immediately (we wanted the Rewards points) and they too confirmed it was the city, not just the zip. Amex really has their heads up their arses. Remember how they were the embodiment of as charge versus credit card? The large purchase they declined was for $4K. They stood to make a nice fee off that with the vendor. We've made larger, similar purchases like that in the past, so it isn't like we don't have a history to show we would pay it off next cycle. They told us they no longer have the "unlimited" aspect to their cards, and that they are gradually phasing that out, imposing limits, which they've already done with our Amex Sign and Travel account. Our Amex is now restricted to the Sign and Travel limit. When my wife told the Amex supervisor the Amex TV ads currently running with various celebrities extolling their "freedom" because of their cards were fraudulent and misleading, he waited a beat, then said he agreed. If those of us that are able are still supposed to go out and spend and stimulate the economy, this is a really stupid way to facilitate it by denying purchases. We've also told FIA and Amex to take their cards and ram them up their collective backsides. If either survive this current crisis, and with decisions like these I don't see how they will, there's no way in hell we ever go back to them. Sheer idiocy.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder By the way, we closed the FA card with the doubled rate even though they reinstated the old one. Screw them.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^ Well I guess the 'computer' made another mistake.I love this excuse when I get it from companies - and I love to explain I have worked in the computer industry for 32 years and computers make a minute fraction of errors, it's the idiots feeding and reading the data who are the root cause. I am glad to have someone else on the sidelines with me rooting for FIA to go belly up -- idiots ! And we're handing blank checks to these goofs - it's amazing.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Well I guess the 'computer' made another mistake.I love this excuse when I get it from companies - and I love to explain I have worked in the computer industry for 32 years and computers make a minute fraction of errors, it's the idiots feeding and reading the data who are the root cause." It's just so incredibly frustrating. Barring some huge disaster, since both my wife and I work in essential government jobs, we'll stay employed and weather this crisis. I cannot imagine what others must be feeling if we're being treated this way with excellent credit and more than decent income. There's no long term thinking here. As you said, computers only do what a human tells it to do. Amex and FIA are going to need consumers like us now and down the road, but we'll never go back. We had very long histories with both cards and had a semi-right to assume we would be treated accordingly. With this, fool me once and all that. It's akin to taking back a cheating spouse. Once that trust has been violated, the hell with them.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ it's why GM and Ford etc lost customers over the years, and now these companies. Trest your good customers like poop and they will remember I was a cardholder since 1982.....and like you I will never go back to them. Imcompetent boobs
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy I've been travelling a lot lately, and decided that it might be a benefit for me to switch to a HiltonHonors card sponsored by AMEX. They declined my application until I can "verify" my address by having my employer or bank write a letter on my behalf. Are they crazy? I'm going to waste valuable energy having someone write a letter for me to get a lousy credit card? No thanks. I'll just keep my current Mastercard with 2% cash rewards that I pay off every month. AMEX just lost the chance to sign up a customer who was going to shift over $40K in annual charge card transactions from Mastercard. They are clueless.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "They declined my application until I can "verify" my address by having my employer or bank write a letter on my behalf. Are they crazy?" Based upon my experience with them, addresses are now their crutch. And you're right, it's crazy. Has either your employer or bank gone out and verified your address? Truly, what bearing does that have on anything? You'd think if we had Beverly Hills addresses we'd be even more suspect because the inference there would be that we had mortgages that were out of this world. Then again, that assumes Beverly Hills is a good thing.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Will I buy another GM car in the future ? They're going to have to bowl me over - grudges last a while.>> A new Camaro perhaps?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I cancelled my Amex a while back. They are making a series of clueless decisions that we see right here in this thread; treating good customers like crap, getting away from the business that distinguished them from other players in the market, etc. Next thing you know they'll be in financial trouble and be asking for a bailout... Slightly OT in a different direction, but I've always wondered about this one: <Yup. They're making massive money by promoting fear. They make us Y2K guys look like a bunch of amateurs.> RT, did you as a "Y2K" guy think that Y2K WOULD be a problem if the various fixes and patches so many companies (including mine) paid for were not made? Were you not sure? Or did you really think people were suckers for buying into it? I don't mean in retrospect, I mean in 1999.
Originally Posted By barboy Hey Dabob how's the economy in 'Welcome Back Kotter' land? I ask because I just spent New Years eve(here in Calif.) with my cousin who lives and works in Brooklyn and he tells me he has noticed no real or significant downturn changes since he's been there. He moved to NY from the California 'Bay' 5 years ago and teaches basic English to the scholastically challenged like Kotter's 'sweathogs'(---Wow, did I just get all PC? I hope this won't be a trend LOL!) In his 10 day visit out west he noticed that there is a huge difference in economical conditions between Calif and New York. What's your angle?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<Will I buy another GM car in the future ? They're going to have to bowl me over - grudges last a while.>> A new Camaro perhaps?< funny you should mention that because I am goingto drive it. A friend of mine owns a localChevy dealership and I am in lineto sample one assoon as in. The issue - if the SS(V*) is $40K - then sorry,it's no deal,too many way better cars in that price range. That is what was doneto the Challenger- the top gun is $40K....
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<funny you should mention that because I am goingto drive it. A friend of mine owns a localChevy dealership and I am in lineto sample one assoon as in. The issue - if the SS(V*) is $40K - then sorry,it's no deal,too many way better cars in that price range. That is what was doneto the Challenger- the top gun is $40K....>> I understand. Of course this car can pretty much blow away any stock muscle/sports car from the "golden age", plus the handling will be way better. A poor man's Corvette if you will. And I expect it will be more reliable and refined than any of Chrysler's hemi monsters. I don't think there are too many 400+ hp cars out there under 40K. The 2010 Shelby GT500 is expected to cost a whole lot more. To get that kind of power in a BMW or an Audi will cost a whole lot more as well.
