Originally Posted By land fan I say no to a fifth park! First get Magic Kingdom together!Fantasyland is in dire need of an overhaul and could use an E ticket.Plus an E ticket in another land wouldnt hurt either.I wouldnt mind if Fantasyland got a few C or D tickets just something new.In Anaheim you can actually spend some time in that fantasyland .At MK I just use it as a cut through to get to Liberty Square from Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By Nobody From post #123 "I'm nobody's minion." Thanks. I guess everybody's got to have at least one. ;-)
Originally Posted By jonnyrzone420 I got it! Lets forget about a fifth gate a worry about a third gate at universal! woo hoo!
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 <<OK, so one building torn down with Horizons, World of Motion gutted. Communicore, gutted. Imagination, gutted. Wonders of Life, closed. Space Ship Earth, gutted. Living Seas, redone. Energy, redone. Entrance area, redone. Land, redone. That's the whole thing, if I recall. What else is there? The fountain? And really, most of these chages have NOT been for the better. The problem with Epcot, if you look at the parking lot, is that it never got as many people as they thought it would. So, they've been trying desperately, throwing billions at this thing, to build it up and make it so that it doesn't seem so stodgy. What DCA needed from the beginning was to grow what it started with. It was a good start, utterly tossed aside, and had a whole lot of really poor choices made as to what to put in next, or what to remove. Now they are continuing this process, but with a lot more money thrown at it. What they are intending on doing is not that great, it sounds like so far. But it does sound expensive. But, the actuality is that FW is a total redo. World Showcase has had updates. Oh Canada, that's been updated (with Martin Short? Great choice...) and American Adventure has been updated. I haven't seen El Rio del Tiempo yet (or whatever they call it now) so I don't know if they ripped it out and started fresh or just updated it a bit. I hope they don't change the Norway ride, it is the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've ever seen at a Disney park>> Okay, honestly. Like Spirit said earlier, the idea of Epcot was to show the future. These attractions are supposed to show the Future, hence the name FUTURE WORLD. This cant be the future according to 1981 (believe thats the right date). yeah, so they have all been redone, DCA is around 7 years old and already undergoing this massive of a makeover. The story of DCA was the managemnent going on a retreat to come up with new ideas. The original idea came out in 2001 with the addition of DCA. now it is already undergoing this massive change. The pricetag is what, 2 billion? That is massive. I wish the WDW management would take what DL did with a retreat to try and fix the mess that is Disney's MGM/Hollywood Studios. Maybe new name, new look?
Originally Posted By jonvn "These attractions are supposed to show the Future" None of the things that were originally in there that have been removed could were really all that much about the future that they did not need to change for that reason.
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 But they are in a place called Future world. basically, my idea of future world was a place for the Imagineers to expand on Tomorrowland from MK since they had so little space there. And honestly, do you think that you would be happy if the attractions from Epcot had remained the same to this day. No. Everything has wear and tear. To put it into perspective... EPCOT's changing has been like changing the decor or color in your own home. It just has to be done. On the other hand, the refurb/revamp of DCA has been like moving to another home, or completely blowing up the inside of your home and putting in walls and stuff in different places because you didnt like it the first time. At least, thats my take on the subject. Think of it this way as well. DCA is getting the entire entrance facade redone. The entry of a park is normally supposed to reflet some of the grandeur of the park itself and the general idea that it evokes. Just changing that shows that this is a change of the overall idea that the park evokes. In other words, if the front of MK was suddenly made to look like the inside of a stripclub or bar, would you get a different feeling or idea about the MK is about???
Originally Posted By jonnyrzone420 Some of the ideas they are implementing for DCA seem really great. The one I like the most is they are giving the park a new centerpiece, similar to what they did with the socerers hat at DHS. Everyone says Epscot needs work to keep with the theme of future world representing the future. Considering the scale and the cost of up keep for that park, I think they have done a great job. Except for EEA, every pavilion in future world has been updated, other then wonders of life, which they will be working on next year. Innoventions is constantly being re-done to stay ahead of technology. Thats probably why there is always some part of either east or west under construction. SE which has its soft opening really soon has been completely revamped. Same idea but much diffrent representation. I think WDW as a whole is making a lot of great changes, not that they really need too. Everything Disney soes seems to work, simply because they are disney, and if it doesn't work, they understand it and they fix it. 2008 and beyond is going to be a very exciting year for WDW with current, upcoming, and attractions we havn't even heard of yet.
Originally Posted By Simba12 There will definately be a fifth gate. I've read where there are at least 3 different concepts for it at Imagineering. The only way they will ever see real growth at WDW is by adding a major gated attraction. If it has reached its "saturation" point, it is because there has not been enough investment in the parks in the past several years. A new park can add up to 8 million additional guests visiting per year. They have to create excitement about the resort that is more than YOMD. So, Disney, my vote is to bring on parks 5, 6, 7, and 8.
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 Im not opposed to it really as long as they clean up the other parks first. Stupid homework took me forever tonight. cya guys.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But they are in a place called Future world." I don't care if the place is called Kimiwakatula. "do you think that you would be happy if the attractions from Epcot had remained the same to this day. " There is nothing wrong with them changing things. "EPCOT's changing has been like changing the decor or color in your own home." Not really. Not when they tear down and rebuild. It's not like decor or paint. That'd be simple updates. Basically, what it comes down to is that the content is completely different from what it was originally. We got people saying things like "But the building is the same one, so it's not like it's a different attraction." or "it's just a coat of paint" when an entire pavilion is ripped down. What is going on in DCA is really basically the same. They're adding some fresh stucco to the entrance mall. Yay. "if the front of MK was suddenly made to look like the inside of a stripclub or bar, would you get a different feeling or idea about the MK is about???" I'm sure the entrance will look nicer. We'll see.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I am of the mindset that the changes to Epcot, particularly in "Future World" (a bad name if you ask me) have been for the positive. I like Test Track and though I haven't ridded Mission: Space I can see the appeal to others. I really like the makeoever of the Living Seas with Nemo and Soarin' certainly is a people mover. They have some work to do with Wonder's of Life and Universe of Energy but it can't all happen at once. Frankly, I think they are due for a new World Showcase pavilion and if I were them I'd be calling up Dubai and tapping into their seemingly endless supply of cash. But, I've always enjoyed Epcot for what it is and have not concerned myself with what it was intended to be.
Originally Posted By dshyates While I love the everything is different point of view quite simply EPCOT's entrance corridor from the turnstiles to and including the weenie has NOT gone through a thematic and artistic direction change resulting the simultaneous architectural facade alteration of EVERY structure.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper You lost me there...but if you are saying it is time to redesign the entrace to EPCOT, I would agree.
Originally Posted By dshyates Sorry Wahoo, I was responding to jonvn's post #192, that is part of an ongoing argument of whether EPCOTS 25 year evolution is equivalent to DCAs extreme makeover.
Originally Posted By jonvn SO it will be DCA's 15 year evolution. People are hung up on the entrance mall being changed. That's what this is about. They think this is some massive thing. It's 5 shops and a trolley. It'll be nicer, I hope. But beyond that, it's not that much. A lot of money, but the place just isn't changing all that much.
Originally Posted By dshyates "think this is some massive thing. " They believe that the artistic design change is an indicator of the incompetence of the original designers and that Disney is tacitly acknowledging this by changing it. Other say the entrance is perfectly fine as it is and that the new guys are spending millions to maliciously backhand their predecessors.
Originally Posted By jonvn "They believe that the artistic design change is an indicator of the incompetence of the original designers " I would not call it incompetence. We don't know what they had to work with. It might be they put in everything they could afford to given the budget. And in so doing, they gave it a good feel and idea. Execution was the problem, not the idea. As opposed to now, where the idea seems weak but the execution will be likely be good. Maybe. The artistic direction really isn't changing. They are enhancing the entrance area. Adding a few rides, and making the decor more ornate. I mean, that's all well and good, but it's not really what you are saying it is. At least it does not sound like it. "Other say the entrance is perfectly fine as it is and that the new guys are spending millions to maliciously backhand their predecessors." I think the entrance can use some help. The GG Bridge has never looked right, for example. The murals, while very nice pieces of art kind of are invisible. The sun icon thing is nice, but it's rather static. The train is ok, but kind of pointless. IT needs work. But I do think that a lot of this is them maliciously trying to backhand their predecessors. They are throwing out perfectly good if not great ideas and replacing them with poor ones but with a bigger budget. If they were to take the ideas that were introduced and build upon them, instead of just cramming the place with cartoons, that'd be one thing. But to toss perfectly good and workable concepts for something else just because it is something else is ego run wild.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<There will definately be a fifth gate. I've read where there are at least 3 different concepts for it at Imagineering. The only way they will ever see real growth at WDW is by adding a major gated attraction. If it has reached its "saturation" point, it is because there has not been enough investment in the parks in the past several years. A new park can add up to 8 million additional guests visiting per year. They have to create excitement about the resort that is more than YOMD. So, Disney, my vote is to bring on parks 5, 6, 7, and 8.>> Will someone else take this as I really don't want to come off nasty to a newbie who might be young? There simply will NOT be any additional gates at WDW. This comes from the people who make those choices ... you know, like Bob Iger and the Board. So why don't you tell us how what they have said doesn't matter? Better yet, go back and read some of my earlier posts and learn something today!
