Originally Posted By mawnck George Will also gives it to Obama by virtue of him keeping up with McCain.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Probably wise. I'm certainly not feeling any more informed right now.>> C'mon, mawnck. Throughout this thread, you've rated the candidates's performances as if they're competitors on some cheap Reality TV show. "Bam! That's a good one!" "That tie doesn't play on TV." "Snap! He's not looking at the camera." "And after the debate, look at what so-and-so is saying about the exchange!" If you don't feel any more informed after this debate, I'd suggest that's because you didn't listen to what the candidates actually said.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Since when is a "tie" a win for Obama? I seem to recall that everyone here was spoiling for the cool, collected and oh-so-intelligent Barack Obama to make toast of that doddering, angry, uninformed old coot. Or am I just being cynical?
Originally Posted By DlandDug (P.S. Obama's necktie WAS better. But both ties were a dis-aster! They both failed when it came to selecting a stylist.)
Originally Posted By chickendumpling Here's the transcript of tonight's debate for anyone who cares: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/3oarjm" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/3oarjm</a> Who won? I'm closer to the camp that says debates are lost, not won. Foreign policy is McCain's calling card so it was his to lose. And he did, imho. Obama did not come off as ignorant on the issues or completely lacking in judgment and critical thought on these issues like McCain's folks have been selling. McCain smirked and condescended at times but it seemed contrived and arrogant and out of place in the context of the debate because Obama was right in there with analysis and even examples the whole time.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<I seem to recall that everyone here was spoiling for the cool, collected and oh-so-intelligent Barack Obama to make toast of that doddering, angry, uninformed old coot.>> Not everyone, not me. I expected McCain to kick Obama's butt.
Originally Posted By DlandDug THIS JUST IN! Fox News Instant Viewer Poll has chosen a clear winner! (Wait for it...) McCAIN!!! With 82% of the votes! Obama gets 16%. Undecided gets 1%. So there!
Originally Posted By hopemax I didn't know there was a Chat room thread about this. Obviously, the first question was going to be on the economic crisis, regardless of this supposed to be a foreign policy debate. However, I didn't expect the first 40 minutes of a 90 minute debate would be on economics, and apparently, neither did Obama's camp. He seemed ready to talk about generalities, but McCain came armed with specifics which Obama was unprepared for. The problem with McCain's specifics is that he continued with the same lies about the taxes on people making $42,000 a year and other things. So if a person is only going to watch the debate, McCain looked much stronger. Obama was on the defensive. I am sure that over the next few days blogs, media outlets and the campaigns will be going everything line by line repudiating the lies. But if the American people aren't paying attention, not gonna help. The one thing is Obama's favor, is that McCain revealed his tactics and by the time the economic/domestic debate comes around Obama can be prepared to answer with specifics of his own. Once the foreign policy debate got into full gear, you could see that Obama had better prepared answers. Leading up to this debate the expectation was that McCain would do better than Obama. Personally, Obama did better than I expected, and McCain did worse than I expected. I think when it comes to Iraq, Iran, Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, that you can tell Obama has thought about these issues. He has formed opinions on how we should handle relations with these countries. He came off to me as thoughtful and informed. This is in contrast to the Republican candidate for VP who was given a 2nd chance to talk about her foreign policy experience and Russia, which the campaign HAD to have seen coming, and she still failed to give a reasoned answer. Meanwhile, a couple of times McCain said things that I thought to myself wait...that's not right...I'm sure the facts will come out. Ultimately, I think this was a draw. No, "I knew Jack Kennedy..." or "I can see Russia" moment. I did a brief scan of another board I read, and in that time saw 4 "undecideds" say that they now feel confident voting for Obama, he may have less experience, but he has the smarts to learn. I saw no one say they decided tonight to vote for McCain. So maybe a slight edge to Obama.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Foreign policy is McCain's calling card so it was his to lose.<< I agree. I only got to see about five minutes of this, and will now (alas) have to depend on the sound bites. From what I saw, both candidates seemed to be holding it together. Pity that by this time tomorrow tonight's generally credible performances will have been reduced to nothing more than partisan fodder...
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 If nothing else, what the two said about talking to "enemies" was insightful. Obama said that it made sense to speak with all parties involved in a conflict that could potentially result in somebody being nuked. McCain said that we mustn't talk to potential aggressors because to do so might grant them legitimacy in the world's eyes. Okay. PRAGMATICISM: Let's try to understand their point of view. Let's try to open up a line of influence. VS... PRIDE. Screw them. We're America. We don't have to talk to them. We'll bomb the hell out of them if we feel like it... and they need to understand that. End of "discussion." Not that we need to discuss anything.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<Pity that by this time tomorrow tonight's generally credible performances will have been reduced to nothing more than partisan fodder...>> Regrettably, that is probably more true than not. But why is that?
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>Fox News Instant Viewer Poll has chosen a clear winner! (Wait for it...) McCAIN!!! With 82% of the votes! Obama gets 16%. Undecided gets 1%.<<<< Shocking that FOX's fair and balanced viewers would choose McCain as the clear winner!!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>C'mon, mawnck. Throughout this thread, you've rated the candidates's performances as if they're competitors on some cheap Reality TV show. "Bam! That's a good one!" "That tie doesn't play on TV." "Snap! He's not looking at the camera." "And after the debate, look at what so-and-so is saying about the exchange!" If you don't feel any more informed after this debate, I'd suggest that's because you didn't listen to what the candidates actually said.<< (1) You have your interests, I have mine. (2) 90 minutes of the same old talking points being regurgitated yet again is not making me or anyone else any more informed, assuming they've been paying a lick of attention. DAR (who I was responding to) clearly has. (3) Debates are never won on facts. Whoever gets the zinger, the memorable soundbite, wins. Whoever does something spectacularly dumb, loses. When there's none of the above, Joe Sixpack switches to Two and a Half Men on the CW. Which I predict the ratings will indicate he did. (4) This is a laughing place. Don't take financial and nuclear armageddon so dang seriously.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Anybody watching Fox?<< The Nazi channel? Hell no! Meanwhile on MSNBC they are all going off about no one talked the economy.. like it was McCain's fault .. like it was Obama's fault. Well .. this was a structured debate where Obama and McCain had to follow SPECIFIC questions. Blame the moderator for not bringing up some economic questions!
Originally Posted By mawnck Was just perusing the pundit commentaries on the Fox News website. Most of them gave the win to Obama, on the basis that he put to rest the question of whether he was qualified on foreign issues.
