Originally Posted By gadzuux DAR sounds like the "tough-love" sort - go ahead and starve - it's character building. And it prevents "dependency" on the government.
Originally Posted By DAR <<The Party of Mostly White Dudes does not wish for minorities to be self-reliant. They basically want minorities to be self-depricating and self-loathing and afraid of their own shadow, so as to never have the self-esteem and determination to desire and expect anything that they don't have... like the White Dudes' jobs and lifestyle.>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bALW5QyXe10" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...W5QyXe10</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "That's mind blowing." Yes. But it's the classic comforting justification.
Originally Posted By DAR <<DAR sounds like the "tough-love" sort - go ahead and starve - it's character building. And it prevents "dependency" on the government.>> Maybe this country wouldn't be were it is if we weren't so dependent on others to bail us out.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >Why can't both exist together? < I don't have a problem with schools going "however some people believe Y" It's when they take out X (which is based on science) out of schools in favor of Y (based on faith) >Maybe this country wouldn't be were it is if we weren't so dependent on others to bail us out.< *where Yeah FRANCE great job helping us with britain! YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT!
Originally Posted By DAR ^^^ That was necessary. I'm talking about people and businesses who think there problems will be solved if the government comes to their rescue.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Why is it that conservatives are in favor of government help for big business, but nothing for the most vulnerable members of our society? How can they cry "People should be self-reliant" one day, and "Banks need a bailout" the next and not be filled with self-loathing? How do they sleep at night?
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 > I'm talking about people and businesses who think there problems will be solved if the government comes to their rescue.< But their problems are usually solved (for the moment at least) I'm not all for the government giving EVERYONE EVERYTHING they could possibly need, but I'm all for the government helping people out when they need it.
Originally Posted By DAR ^^^ But the problem government today is creating a culture where they want people to become dependent on them for anything and everything. We can't afford that now.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I doubt you would sing this tune, DAR, if your mortgage were 25% underwater, if you had lost your job and couldn't find another one for over a year, if your retirement nest egg lost 40% or more of its worth, or you lost your affordable health care and became terminally ill. I find it interesting that the people who scream "we can't afford all this spending now" the loudest, are the ones who haven't been touched by adversity in this recession. Like the millionaires and billionaires who've actually seen their wealth increase while everyone else's has decreased.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >creating a culture where they want people to become dependent on them for anything and everything< Having helpful programs =/= Dependence. >We can't afford that now.< We can't afford fighting two losing wars based on false pretenses either, but SOME people...
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "But the problem government today is creating a culture where they want people to become dependent on them for anything and everything. We can't afford that now" Really? Even the much-feared health care plan has people buying their insurance from private companies. GM is about to have their IPO and to pay back the government. The government chose to bail out the big banks rather than the taxpayers when they easily could have taken over the bad mortgages directly.
Originally Posted By mawnck Well! Ron Paul has made his opinion known: >>The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer. Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses. Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia. It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.<< >>This is all about hate and Islamaphobia. We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.<< <a href="http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-08-20/ron-paul-sunshine-patriots-stop-your-demagogy-about-the-nyc-mosque/" target="_blank">http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-08...-mosque/</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, what he wrote makes a lot of sense to me. Especially in light of a political cartoon I saw today online, originally from a Rome, Georgia newspaper. It shows the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, with Santa's sleigh being pulled by 8 women in full, black burkas. Osama bin Laden is driving the sleigh, holding Santa's decapitated head in one hand, reins in the other. A woman in the crowd is saying to her husband "Happy now, Mr. Let Them Build The WTC Mosque?" Nevermind that the "Ground Zero Mosque" isn't at Ground Zero, nor visible from the site. Facts just get in the way of backwards thinking. According to that cartoonist (and many conservatives who think like him) all Muslims are responsible for 9/11.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan By the way, Howard Dean is dead wrong on this as well. So it isn't just conservatives that are muddled on the Constitution and the full meaning of religious freedom.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The only reason that this is an issue is that there is an election in two months.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Agreed. But that doesn't go far enough. The issue was ginned up by a cynical GOP leadership to fan the flames of racial and religious intolerance, and all for their own political gain. People who jump on their bandwagon - all 64% of them - are either ignorant of the actual facts, or couldn't comprehend them even if they tried. >> Howard Dean is dead wrong on this as well. << Yeah he is. And the most surprising thing about that is that he's not even running for anything. Why did he capitulate?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Why did he capitulate?<< I have no idea. His thinking seems to be "Sure, they "can" build it there, but why don't they be nice guys and move it elsewhere?" It's a dopey line of reasoning.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The only reason that this is an issue is that there is an election in two months*** I read an interesting comment opining that this was the right wingers way of bringing 9/11 back as the main topic for the elections (having lost it as an issue in 08).
