Originally Posted By Dabob2 What I read on the right-wing site was leaked from the PD, but no further identification given. Don't know if CNN re-reported that from that website or another (or directly from the PD) or what. But I've seen no interview with a real live person backing up that version.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Whatever version of events eventually holds up, I think it is pretty clear this wasn't a "cold-blooded execution". There is nothing in Wilson's background to indicate he was a racist or violent cop. I think he truly did fear for his life... the question is whether that fear was justified. Weapons today are just too damned lethal. When you can empty a clip in a couple of seconds, it doesn't give much time for re-evaluation or second thoughts. But you can't really take semi-automatic handguns away from cops when half the suspects they face have one...
Originally Posted By Dabob2 As I said, I don't think this was an "execution" either in the sense that most people would mean that. We don't know if he reacted out of fear, a hair-trigger temper, annoyance at not being obeyed right away, or what. We also don't know if he was racist - certainly he could have been so on less than a crude level, i.e. no one would have heard him spouting the n-word around, and yet when push came to shove he shot when he wouldn't have shot at an unarmed white kid.
Originally Posted By Donny "he shot when he wouldn't have shot at an unarmed white kid." How do you know this ?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Read my post again. I said that could have been the case. RT said that we know of nothing to indicate Wilson was a racist; I said that while that's true, many people are what you might call "below the surface" racists, i.e. they don't go around spouting the n-word or anything obvious, yet they still view a black guy as inherently more threatening than a white guy.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I posted this in the other thread, but it's well worth a read, Donny. (Written by a cop, no less.) <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1315081/-A-Cops-take-on-Ferguson?detail=email">http://m.dailykos.com/story/20...il=email</a> "It doesn't matter if your subject looks like the hulk, is talking (smack) and refusing verbal commands, that's not enough for deadly force. Even if you are trying to put the hand cuffs on him, he jerks back and pushes you off to get away, that's not enough. It doesn't matter how angry the guy makes you. It doesn't matter if he embarrassed you. It doesn't matter if he told you what he was going to do to your wife and kids. All that matters is at that moment: was the suspect armed? Did he have the ability to seriously hurt you? Did he pose an imminent threat to use that ability? Were you convinced that you were in immediate mortal danger? Just resisting the police does not meet the standard for deadly force. " (snip) "Just contrast what has happened in Ferguson Missouri to what happened last spring in Bunkerville Nevada. In Ferguson we had the police reaction to protesters. In Bunkerville we had the protesters reaction to police. Two different groups of citizens with ostensibly the same 1st amendment issues but two drastically different reactions by the citizens and law enforcement. " (snip) "I was completely stunned to see those officers surrounded by screaming people with assault rifles, a police dog getting kicked, and open defiance of verbal commands. But when I saw that those officers had sniper rifles pointed at them I could not believe my eyes. Snipers. On live TV. Let me repeat that: On the Bundy Ranch, armed protesters were violently obstructing law enforcement from performing their duties. Sniper rifles were pointed at those law enforcement officers. Then those “snipers” openly gloated about how they had the agents in their sights the entire time. And what was the police response? All out retreat. Nobody was arrested. No tear gas deployed. No tanks were called in. No Snipers posted in the neighborhood. No rubber bullets fired. Nothing. Police officers in mortal danger met with heavily armed resistance and no one had to answer for it. Could any reasonable person look at scenes coming out of Nevada and say they looked peaceful? Nobody called the armed protesters at the Bundy Ranch who threatened police thugs. Nobody told them the government was supreme so they should just let the system work it out. Nobody told them to just shut up and do what they were told. 2 incidents, same laws, but 2 different sets of rules." (snip) "But I haven’t seen any protesters in Ferguson hanging the American flag upside down, or renouncing their citizenship. I haven’t heard of any protest leaders on the street in Ferguson Missouri calling for the overthrow of the city council or the removal of the mayor by force. What about those “2nd amendment remedies” that politicians were hinting at 5 years ago? Just imagine if there were 150 black folks walking around Ferguson with assault rifles right now. Imagine if a couple of them took up sniper positions on the tops of buildings with their rifles pointed at the police officers. Take a quick guess at how that story ends." You should read the whole thing.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***"he shot when he wouldn't have shot at an unarmed white kid." How do you know this ?*** Reading comprehension is a valuable skill. Try it sometime.
Originally Posted By Donny So Dabob2, Do you think it's OK to prejudge a person based on the acts of the people within their group ?????
Originally Posted By ecdc >>based on the acts of the people within their group<< That might be the dumbest phrase you've ever used, but here we go. What do you mean by "group?" Can I prejudge (you know, be prejudiced against...) someone based on their skin color because of something another person with the same skin color did? I can...but that would make me a racist idiot. Can I judge someone based on their voluntary involvement with an ideologically based group...say...the NRA or Cliven Bundy's supporters? That tends to make more sense.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <So Dabob2, Do you think it's OK to prejudge a person based on the acts of the people within their group ?????> That's pretty much the definition of prejudice. Nearly everyone does it do one degree or another. Myself included. And that's what I meant about the cop. You don't have to be a hardcore racist or Klan member to harbor racist feelings and prejudices, and be more likely to shoot at a black guy than a white guy. And no, it's not okay. Especially when it comes to lethal force.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Looks like whoever said Wilson might have shot AT Brown when he was walking away, but missed, may have gotten it right. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43753_Law_Enforcement_Officials_Admit_Officer_Wilson_Fired_at_Michael_Brown_as_He_Ran_Away">http://littlegreenfootballs.co...Ran_Away</a> "New York Times report on the huge differences between the accounts of eyewitnesses to the shooting of Michael Brown and accounts from Ferguson police doesn’t have much new information (if you’ve been following LGF, anyway), but it does show once again how consistent all the eyewitness accounts have been. However, one new detail is very striking — because it’s the first time I’ve seen police admit that officer Darren Wilson actually fired his weapon at Michael Brown as he was running away. Here’s the key section: 'However, law enforcement officials say witnesses and forensic analysis have shown that Officer Wilson did sustain an injury during the struggle in the car. As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials.' The first section is just a repeat of what Ferguson PD has been saying since the beginning, that Wilson and Brown struggled inside the car. Notably, none of the eyewitnesses confirm this story. However, the second paragraph quoted above makes it very clear that officer Wilson was firing his weapon at Michael Brown as he ran away — in other words, even though law enforcement officials say he didn’t hit Brown or Johnson, he was indeed shooting at Brown’s back. That’s a confirmation of one of the crucial bits of eyewitness information, and an explanation for the initial reports that Brown was “shot in the back” — because Wilson did try to shoot him in the back. And that’s not supposition any more; it’s the direct word from law enforcement."
Originally Posted By Donny Why the leadership within the black community has been instigating instead of educating the Ferguson black community goes beyond common scenes.How many times have you heard people say "We don't speak about ongoing investigations"
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Many similar incidents have had their incident reports released well before this point. But it's telling that you see a legitimate demand as "instigating."
Originally Posted By ecdc White conservatives and moderates: Why do people take Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck seriously they're just entertainers ya know and AREN'T JESSE JACKSON AND AL SHARPTON THE WORST I WILL NEVER TAKE THE BLACK COMMUNITY SERIOUSLY!!!
Originally Posted By Donny Go into a community where Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh get high approval numbers and you won't see the kind of destructive community killing actions you see where Al Sharpton is so loved. there is abig difference
Originally Posted By ecdc >>there is abig difference<< I agree there is quite the difference between these men. Just not at all in the way you think.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Yes, the community that feels like they are in power does not tend to get as destructive as the community that feels like they are under siege and where the police can shoot them without penalty. But let's not forget the Rush/Beck fans like Cliven Bundy who committed an act of treason to not pay a few dollars in grazing fees to the people who own the land. Or the right wing hero Randy Weaver.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Go into a community where Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh get high approval numbers and you won't see the kind of destructive community killing actions you see where Al Sharpton is so loved. there is abig difference>> This confirms it. Not only do you come off sounding exactly like a racist, you sound like an unintelligent racist incapable of critical thinking. Here's something for you to chew over since I know you're a huge fan of open carry: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/20/texas-gun-club-named-after-black-panthers-leader-holds-armed-march-against-killer-cops/">http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201...er-cops/</a> I'm guessing the Huey P. Newton Gun Club is going to end open carry in Texas as we currently know it. Good on them for exercising their civil rights!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Why the leadership within the black community has been instigating instead of educating the Ferguson black community goes beyond common scenes>> Gee... does that also include setting up voter registration booths near the protest area as well? Is trying to increase African-American voter turnout "instigating" or "educating"?
