Originally Posted By danyoung >But then it would count for scrabble, so it's all good.< I play my aunt in L.A. a couple times a year in scrabble, and I'm not sure I'd have the stones to use a word like pwn. Besides, not many points in pwn . . .
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>How is it pronounced? Like "pawn"?<< It rhymes with "own", but with a "p" in front. I'd heard (and seen) it several times before this thread, but didn't know it's origins. I feel like we've managed to do something educational here!
Originally Posted By TP2000 Yes, thank you for the lesson on "pwn". I'd wondered how you were supposed to say/use that. I think I'll let the kids have it, though. As for the Magic Kingdom... Oh, no, it's not doing well. It's still painfully 1971 in too many places out there, and that's not a good thing. Unlike Disneyland, where bits of the 1950's and 60's still exist, there's that uniquely Disneyland thing where you can Google up pictures of Walt Disney standing there in the same building or area that still exists at Disneyland. It's just charming, and they've kept all of the best stuff from 1955-1970. There are few spots left though that reek of the 1950's and 60's but that aren't too aesthetically pleasing. About the only places left that fall into that less-flattering category are the old Motorboat Cruise dock, and probably that entire eastern flank of the Matterhorn walkway and old Autopia loading area. There's a smaller touch of it around the Haunted Mansion/River area. But that's about it. Otherwise, the ground surfaces, the fixtures, the street furniture, the landscaping and fencing, the light fixtures and the signage in the rest of the park have all been swapped out once or twice over since the 1960's. Not so at Magic Kingdom. Too much of that park still has that cheap-but-smooth slurried pavement, the old half-themed fixtures or street furniture, the original switchback queues, and original signage. It's just a very Brady Bunch vibe, and it hasn't aged well. Some eras just don't get better with time, and the 1970's seem to be destined for that scourge. And since even Roy Disney passed away within weeks of the grand opening, about the only vintage celebrity photos you can find of these existing places are images of Card Walker and Dick Nunis (who?!) or maybe some cheesy Sandy Duncan TV special from '75 or something. Magic Kingdom Park (that's what the TDO suits are calling it now, honest) just doesn't have the same foundation that Disneyland has. And where Disneyland has gone in with some very surgical rehabs and updates led by loving Imagineers like Tony Baxter and/or Kim Irvine, Magic Kingdom seems to get sloppier and far less frequent "refreshes" by the latest WDI college intern working with a small budget. Sometimes it turns out fine (1995 New Tomorrowland), and sometimes it's been disastrous (Anything added to Adventureland after '97, how they've let the Rivers of America deteriorate, the mall-ification of Main Street circa 2000-10, and anything added to Tomorrowland after '00). I'm interested to see how this New Fantasyland thing turns out for them. Oddly, they keep talking about how it's adding capacity to the park, but all it's doing is replacing some existing rides while trimming others (Buh-bye Snow White), and adding a FOURTH spinner to a park that already has THREE of them! Really TDO? You think this is going to help? It's bizarre how differently they do things out there in WDW. And even with all the talk of "One Disney", with each passing year Disneyland and WDW seem to be growing even further apart philosophically and operationally. Very odd how that works, and why Burbank doesn't seem to care.
Originally Posted By ChiMike TP, as a fan of most of your posts, I just wanted to pop in here to saw just how on target this last one was. A really solid analysis! It is amazing that under OneDisney the two parks have diverged farther from each other. In the reverse direction of the 80s and 90s too. As far as the expansion is concerned, you are correct. The only capacity that is coming to the MK through the Fantasyland expansion is capacity that was incompetently removed over the last twenty years, both in attractions and dining.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<The only capacity that is coming to the MK through the Fantasyland expansion is capacity that was incompetently removed over the last twenty years, both in attractions and dining.>> I agree it will be nice to get that portion of the park formerly occupied by 20,000 Leagues back. But, I have to totally disagree on the dining aspect. Making that statement when there are dining venues shut down all over the MK such as Adventureland Verenda, Aunt Polly's Place on Tom Sawyer Island and still many others that are now "seasonal" like the Tomorrowland Terrace's noodle station. The situational closing of restaurants in the MK is purely self imposed. The "new" Fantasyland reclaimation didn't need a new restaurant there are a gracious plenty already shuttered up around the MK. The last thing the MK needed was a NEW restaurant. In my opinion a complete waste of money.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But tom, they had the marketing impetus, didn't you know that was king? ;-)
Originally Posted By TP2000 Yup, it's a total wash for capacity. I'd love to know the hourly numbers they had in 1995 when they still had a full Toontown with meet n' greets, plus the 20K Submarines, and three working dark rides. Compare that to 2013 when they'll have a slashed Toontown replaced by a Princess greet area in the Castle courtyard, a second Dumbo spinner, Mermaid replacing 20K, and a mine train replacing Snow White. I would be it's a total wash for capacity, or maybe only a few hundred more riders per hour cummulatively. And they'll then have four rides that spin you around in the air, in a park without enough rides to begin with.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yep, because we all know people plank down $1000's and travel vast distances for spinners.
Originally Posted By ChiMike All points right on. And, Tom, no disagreement with my original statement. That's my point. The new B&TB dining does not add dining capacity, only transitions it from the many shuttered facilities. My only hope through this is for the very slim chance that King Stephan's might sometime in the future allow for characterless dinners with B&TB online.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Thanks for your kind note ChiMike! I had forgotten how many shuttered restaurants Magic Kingdom has. Comparatively, Disneyland is re-activating the last shuttered location it has in the park; Plaza Pavilion. And they are then expanding and refreshing the Carnation Cafe and nearby ice cream parlor as part of the process, too. Once this stuff opens in phases this Christmas and next spring, and with Fantasy Faire moving to Plaza Gardens and the Fantasyland Theater reverting back to big stage productions, about the only "dead" spots left at Disneyland will be.... Motorboat Cruise area, and... um... that's about it. You could make an argument that the back area of the Festival Arena is under-utilized, but they bring it online regularly for stuff like the Pirates 3D attraction, corporate picnics, Family Character Days, etc. Yup, the Motorboat Cruise dock will be about the only area still in mothballs at Disneyland. While Magic Kingdom has a bunch of mothballed facilities and a very weird "expansion" finishing up. Odd.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I fail to see the logic in opening yet another restaurant to victorious cheers when so many restaurants in the MK sit abandoned. Where is the logic there? "Say boss, I got a great idea!" "I know there are well maybe a few defunct (nope), closed (nope), shut down ( nope ), under utilized ( yeah that's it under utilitzed) restaurants around the MK, but HEY, wouldn't it be way kewl if we put a new restaurant smack dab in the new Fantasyland reclaimation ( I mean addition ) project?" Sure, it makes perfect business sense to leave prime real estate vacant. <sar> If Disney wants _________ (fill in the blank; meet and greets, plush shops, DVC kiosks, pin venders) there are plenty of abandoned restaurants around property they could have utilized.
Originally Posted By tonyanton There are also abandoned shops...several existing Adventureland shops used to have indoor, air-conditioned sections, which are now used for storage (as was the recently reopened Pirates League space), as well as the Tricorned Hat Shop in FL/LS. The worst offender at the MK which I am surprised no one has mentioned is the barely used (and then poorly used) Diamond Horseshoe.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I had forgotten how many shuttered restaurants Magic Kingdom has. Comparatively, Disneyland is re-activating the last shuttered location it has in the park; Plaza Pavilion." Is the Aladdin place in Adventureland open? I've never seen it operating, but it's been awhile since I've been to DL. "Yup, the Motorboat Cruise dock will be about the only area still in mothballs at Disneyland." You forgot about the Peoplemover. How could you!?
Originally Posted By DlandDug The DL Astro Orbitor is alive and spinning. There are a few other "under utilized" spaces in DIsneyland; some have been gone so long nobody remembers them any more. Some are also, frankly, too small for today's crowds. Plaza Pavilion is eagerly awaited by many. The old Tahitian Terrace/Aladdin's Oasis has many champions, but the footprint is just too small. The American Egg House/Town Square Cafe/Coffee House, on the other hand, is gone forever. We also have the abandoned footprint of most of the Motor Boat Cruise, that People Mover track, the Festival Arena (but it really is a cash cow for rentals), a charming and empty Skyway station in FL (at the top of a flight of stairs and completely marooned) and... Innoventions. A REALLY big footprint in a really needy area, with a lot of, uh, under utilization. So... there's wiggle room, at least, at Walt's original Magic Kingdom.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Is the Aladdin place in Adventureland open?<< They used it a couple summers ago for an Indiana Jones show, but I think that was the last time they used it on a regular basis (and it was closed for years before that). Aladding and Jasmin (and occasionally Genie) do meet & greets at the entrance, but stay entirely on the sidewalk outside it. From my understanding, that site is just too small to do much with these days, due to modern building and accessability codes. >>You forgot about the Peoplemover. How could you!?<< While it is empty, it hardly takes up any actual space in the park. It could add more capacity to the park, but there really isn't a dead spot left from it (other than the visual dead spot, but that's a different thing) >>Didn't DL lose their Astro Orbiter?<< Nope it's still there. The Astro Orbitor (it's spelled with an "o-r" in DL for some reason, "e-r" in WDW) was moved to the entrance of TL during the 1998 redo, essentially putting the ride in the hub area. The old mechanism is still on top of the tower, spinning at regular intervals, decorated to look like satellite dishes. And while there are relatively few unused spaces left in DL (Carnation Gardens falls into that category, but is being changed in the near future), there are a lot that could be considered under utilized. Much of Tomorrowland is a waste of space, with Innoventions and Captain EO barely pulling in a crowd, remnants of Cosmic Waves blocking the central TL plaza, and the Starcade slowly-but-surely being turned into an expansion of the Star Trader. Combine that with an oversized pizza resaurant with an awkward footprint, and you have a great strip of land ready for redevelopment. The areas north and west of Big Thunder Trail create a lovely wilderness setting for Frontierland, but could easily be reworked into something a little more substantial to add capacity to the park. Most of Toontown is just a shell of its former self, after being neutered through years of budget cuts and overzealous lawyers. Most of the homes are a joke, and there's not much filler between the anchors at each end of the land (Roger Rabbit to the east, Go-Coaster and Mickey to the west). The old Disney Gallery location was turned into the Dream Suite for YOAMD, and it appers that it will never return for use from the general public, despite having a great location and charming atmosphere. And of course there's the whole spaghetti bowl area left over from the TL59 expansion, with the addition of the Motor Boat Cruise, Autopia, and Monorail on top of the Submarine Voyage show building. That area could be used for a large-scale expansion, but it would be expensive and difficult to work around the existing Subs infrastructure below. While DL doesn't have a ton of empty facilities at the moment, there are plenty of places that are ripe for redevelopment. But unlike the spaces in the MK, they would all require fairly significant reworking of the surrounding areas, and the end result would need to be completely reconfigured from the existing layouts.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo At least Paris only has two shattered facilities (cottonwood creek ranch and the fantasyland theatre), although the lucky nugget and videopolis are underutilised. There are a large number of available expansion pads too.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But I fear budget issues mean little will be done with them in my lifetime.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>At least Paris only has two shattered facilities (cottonwood creek ranch and the fantasyland theatre), although the lucky nugget and videopolis are underutilised. There are a large number of available expansion pads too.<<< I think DLP is still a nearly perfect park, despite Buzz Lightyear in Discoveryland. Disney should focus on WDSP first, before putting new rides into DLP. We all know that Disney would use the toons for new rides and I don't like that idea. They shouldn't use the expansion pads until WDI comes up with something new which is not based on Pixar or toons. The only new rides I want to see in DLP would be the Indiana Jones Adventure and Splash Mountain, but with another theme that would fit into our Frontierland. I would also be fine with TDL's Pooh for Fantasyland and maybe TLM.
Originally Posted By Expo_Seeker40 As said earlier here, and I agree with them...The MK looks so 70s. The transportation and ticket center...oh my god....and then the 90s purple, orange, and green paint slapped onto it that hasn't changed in over 10 years?! The monorails are falling apart, and many of the light fixtures, etc are old. I think fanboys like the value and quality of the parks in the 70s, not so much everything from the 70s still being around today and looking garish. DLP looks timeless. It's Frontierland looks almost 100% believable. Adventureland looks something out of the Animal Kingdom. Main Street impressed me the most, while the landscaping of DLP's fantasyland blows the one in florida away. WDS Paris though to me is very disappointing. Some very nice attractions there, but it lacks the wow factor of entering hollywood blvd. There was one thing that stood out to me at DLP that really sucked and that was walking off the RER train into a very worn out plaza with cracked sidewalks, empty stands, etc. The place feels very barren until you enter the landscaped resorts and parks area.
