Originally Posted By dagobert >>>There was one thing that stood out to me at DLP that really sucked and that was walking off the RER train into a very worn out plaza with cracked sidewalks, empty stands, etc. The place feels very barren until you enter the landscaped resorts and parks area.<<< That area doesn't belong to Disney, it's a public place owned by the French governemnt. So there is nothing Disney can do about it.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "There was one thing that stood out to me at DLP that really sucked and that was walking off the RER train into a very worn out plaza with cracked sidewalks, empty stands, etc." The fact that there is quick and efficient European style train service to a Disney theme park is something to celebrate no matter how run down it looks. I might feel as if I'm about to be held down and robbed at a Paris train station but at least it offers me a freedom of movement I can't get without a car at Disney's World of Immobility.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "The new B&TB dining does not add dining capacity, only transitions it from the many shuttered facilities." I don't know what the B&TB dining actually is but I don't really have to. The outcome is the same no matter what it is. Unless a new addition brings along its own revenue stream then that is automatically a mark against it according to the powers that be. For all the complaining I do about annual passholders I have to imagine its at least preferable to the completely clueless Disney World market base that possesses an average BMI somewhere North of the Hubble Telescope. Disneyland's reliance on annual passholders means that the market base might not understand the full doctrine of my Lord and Savior John Hench but at least they know that Fantasmic is not called Fantasia and expect that Pixar Addition #23 is painted regularly. This may not justify to Disney the full-blown original E-Ticket addition that I want, but at least the joint will get a bit of tender loving care every now and something new to waddle over and see every now and again. And sometimes it might even be good and add something without taking something else away, like the Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough. The standard isn't incredibly high but the point is that there is a standard. But it seems to me that Disney World is full of these clueless people that don't really understand why they are visiting a Disney theme park, much less four of them. TDO doesn't have to worry about guests returning because they probably aren't, and if they do it will probably be in five years when they realize they must visit Disney World again without really knowing why they have to. I wish Disney would make Disney World a place worth visiting no matter who is visiting, but if that's the way it's going to be, then I'm glad there are passholders in California that have some sense of what they want out of a Disney theme park, even if it's not what I want.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But I fear budget issues mean little will be done with them in my lifetime< I'm more than a few yers older than you are and I think my experiences will definitely be affected. This is not the place for a lengthy discussion on this but I think we all need to face facts. The world economy is in the crapper to unprecedented levels for our liofetimes - and we are going to be affected everyone from home to our favorite diversionary endeavors..... there is no quick fix coming
Originally Posted By vbdad55 okay my mistake -- but again with the issues in Euro..isn't that a great going forward issue ?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yes it is, but with my hard earned money, I would rather have an amazing experience when I spend it. Alton Towers, Efteling, Europa Park, Parc Asterisk are all making heavy investments. Europa park and Legoland Windsor are opening themed resorts next year. And this year all of them made mega investments. DLP in comparison have put on rubbish entertainment and wasted their time ,money and space on Toy Story Playland. I hate it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I was referring more to the lack of investmnent - eventually from everyone into parks and entertainment in general. I quite frankly am amazed that although people need diversion, the total cutbacks haven't happened already..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I applaud those making huge investments - but let's remember those who dumped tons of money into the Hard Rock Amusement park here in the US also- and it went completely belly up. you have to admit theya re risky investments right now- and somewhat dependent upon world economy turning the corner in the nxt 3-5 years. I wish I could be that positive but I don't see it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo They did, years ago. Very little none toon entertainment; staggered opening and closing of attractions, shops and restaurants; maintenance issues; cut backs in decorations, fireworks etc.; not as bad as the Rasulo years where he shut the parks at 6pm in the off season. But theme park attendance is booming in Europe as people are not travelling as much.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 it's all about options. People here not traveling as much either - for work or pleasure either, but the alternative choices here nowhere near what you have from what I see in your picture albums. I hate Six Flags - very little for me at my age now there..I can't take thrill rides like I used to. A few and I am done for the day. And maintenance and food there usually crappy. Hard Rock Park did not make it - I still like some others across the country but they are not week + destinations other than L.A.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>That area doesn't belong to Disney, it's a public place owned by the French governemnt. So there is nothing Disney can do about it.<< While Disney may not control it, I've found that (at least in the US), if someone is willing to pay to upgrade a government-owned facility, the government is more than happy to comply. It turns into a free upgrade for them, and the funding source gets what they want from it. Not sure what the standards are in France, but I imagine Disney could pull a few strings. Afterall, they did get the government to build the station there (in a location that used to be the middle of nowhere). >>And sometimes it might even be good and add something without taking something else away, like the Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough.<< I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough replaced an older generation of...the Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough. It was closed in October 2001, presumably due to potential terror threats. All of the notable additions to DL in the last 15 years were all in facilities that used to house other attractions (Innoventions/America Sings, Rocket Rods/People Mover, Pooh/Country Bears, Buzz/CircleVision, 50th Movie/Mr Lincoln, Castle Walkthrough/Castle Walkthrough, Nemo Subs/regular Subs, Mr Lincoln/50th Movie). Part of that is because the park has been close to full build-out for a while, so there's just no room for new buildings, but it also seems that they spent a good chunk of time trying to bring the park back to its former capacity.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough replaced an older generation of...the Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough." What I mean is that they didn't close Space Mountain to justify opening up the walkthrough. What I'm saying that they brought something back that never should have been closed in the first place. Interestingly enough, the walkthrough is unstaffed, proving any terrorism claims to be bogus. But then again, that was a different management team.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""Interestingly enough, the walkthrough is unstaffed, proving any terrorism claims to be bogus. But then again, that was a different management team."" EXACTLY. There was NO terroist threat oogedy boogedy. Her Cynthia-ness just didn't WANT to pay actual CMs to stand inside the Castle and staff it. PERIOD.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>While Disney may not control it, I've found that (at least in the US), if someone is willing to pay to upgrade a government-owned facility, the government is more than happy to comply. It turns into a free upgrade for them, and the funding source gets what they want from it. Not sure what the standards are in France, but I imagine Disney could pull a few strings. Afterall, they did get the government to build the station there (in a location that used to be the middle of nowhere).<<< The problem is that Euro Disney SCA has so many problem on its own, so I don't think they will spend a lot of money on that area. Currently Disney is refurbing the floor between DLP and WDSP, so maybe that area will get some attention as well.
Originally Posted By CDF2 Does the term "cash cow" have relevance in this conversation? You milk the cash cow as long as you can without putting any investment into it and then when the cow dies (or in this case, if the complaints become too prevalent about MK) then you either buy a new cow or make improvements in the park. WDW is such a different animal then the other resorts - with 4 parks they can get by with MK being a bit old in tooth while with TDL, DLP or DLR, since Disneyland or the Disneyland clones are the main attraction, it seems like management knows where their bread is buttered and makes sure those parks are in top shape. Might Disney be better served if they had a GM for each park who was responsbile for making that park the best it could be?
Originally Posted By CDF2 So is the MK VP a weak voice or is it a case of that person being overruled on by Disney corporate in terms of getting funding for any new development or improvements that they campaign for?
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Many would argue that the MK VP, Phil Holmes, is the driving force behind what is going on inside the MK both on a daily basis as well as the long term development of the park. I know Phil, a nice enough guy but not the most creative person in the world. I think it is much more complicated than that. Though I do think the VP of the MK has not been the best protector of the MK park. I think the maitanence, cleanliness, lack of entertainment changes, even the loss of the Country Bear Christmas fall to him. I believe that the whole new attraction thing (or lack thereof) come from much higher than the VP's of the park. Since they are major capital expenditures as well as involve corporate sponsors, I believe new attractions come from much higher up the corporate food chain.
