Originally Posted By sjhym333 We are local, so we obviously are in a different place than many of you, but we just had a family discussion about our Disney AP's and we have decided not to renew as our various passes expires. We just don't have a compelling reason to go to the parks at the moment. Yes we enjoy them. We did Food and Wine last week and had a nice time, but not nice enough to make us want to re-up with our AP's. Plus Disney does something that surprises me. They don't automatically renew AP's like the other parks. We did however recently renew our Universal passes. I guess that says something. I think Disney would have to do a lot to drop out of #1 in the market. But I also think that the fact that people are choosing to make Universal a part of their vacation plans and in many cases their only vacation plans should concern Disney. I have lived in Orlando for a long time and have been going to the parks the entire time. This is the first time in all my years that I have seen Universal very busy in the off season. I can tell you from experience that the Loew's resorts are doing great business. We tried to book a return weekend to the Royal Pacific and we couldn't get a room for both nights we wants on 3 different weekends. It is never a good thing when loyal customers decide they no longer have a reason to remain loyal. I can only speak for our family. We are spending a lot less on Disney things in general, not because of the economy, but because the value to us is no longer there. It doesn't mean we don't love Disney anymore, we do, but maybe it feels like Disney doesn't love us back as much.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "Then there are those travelers (like me) who don't need something new every time. I don't base my Florida vacation on what's new in what park. I just go, and have continued to visit twice a year for about 15 years now. And what's there is terrific, and I always have a great time. Now, do I enjoy it when they open a new attraction? Of course. But is new stuff a critical component? Not at all. " ditto for our family-- we takenote and make every attempt to enjoy the new attraction - new ride - new restaurant- new parade- whatever- but it doesn't not drive our annual visit. We also take 4-5 days in Vero after leaving WDW- and expect nothing new there ever- just give me the same old ocean and relaxation. going once a year ( likely more than the vast majority of visitors to WDW )- things do not age as quickly for us..
Originally Posted By Expo_Seeker40 Is anyone else bothered by the amount of closed facilities at WDW? How many restaurants or other venues have been shuttered, are now considered backstage, or are only open seasonally?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>The proof is that many people if not most people staying in Orlando are now breaking up their vacations and spending time at Universal and not exclusively WDW...<< There are no number, anywhere, to back up this idea. The four theme parks at WDW welcomed a total of nearly 47 million guests last year. The Universal resorts in Orlando welcomed not quite 12 million. Just the Magic Kingdom alone had more guests (nearly 17 million) than both Universal parks. If "most" of the people staying in Orlando were also including Universal as part of their vacation, we would see numbers more like 24-30 million at Universal. Even "many" would place them at least on par with any single Disney park . The WDW parks are ranked 1, 5, 7 and 8. Universal's are ranked 12 and 13.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^ Yes, as it makes very little sense in considering how much capacity the MK is chugging along without. And then fanboiz don't believe me when I say FLE is only going to bring us back up to 20K/1994 levels...
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Is anyone else bothered by the amount of closed facilities at WDW?<< It is troubling, and a bad business plan. Back in the late 90s at Disneyland, the management team closed down a number of "poorly performing" venues. It looked bad, and created a cycle of neglect. By the time DCA opened (12/01), Disneyland was looking slightly abandoned. When a new team came on board in time for the 50th anniversary in 2005, one of their priorities was getting every venue open, to combat the look of neglect. Lo and behold, guests responded, and Disneyland began posting new record numbers. It has been on the rise ever since. It is baffling to me that the management at WDW is allowed to continue with their wasteful and negative policies, particularly in light of the clear example of Disneyland.
Originally Posted By Expo_Seeker40 Another thing about the facilities: the tomorrowland terrace and the noodle station haven't changed much since 1994...let alone the 1970s! They were never in the original budget for tomorrowland 94 and have never had a budget offered to either of them. Then you have the Adventureland Veranda...complete with authentic 90s cobwebs and 70s flooring and paneling, which with a proper budget could be a great two level venue with an extended patio with views of the main plaza and cinderella castle. Hell, even the new Adventureland bridge was barely aged, they just dry brushed the new floor boards and you can still see the freshly cut pieces of wood. It's hard to fathom (ahhhh!) that tomorrowland's last major refurb will be 20 years old in 2014 and the bulk of tomorrowland is stuck in 1975 with a 1994 paint job.
Originally Posted By tonyanton I agree...let's see: Closed: Adventureland Veranda (though now, unfortunately, being used in part for Tinker Bell meet-and-greet) Numerous Adventureland indoor shop spaces (though we are a long time from the varied and land-specific merchandise that used to be part of the Disney park difference) Tricorned Hat Shop (FL/LS) Diamond Horseshoe (I know it is open seasonlly for meals and during some special events, but it used to be open EVERY DAY with a show) Aunt Polly's (on Tom Sawyer Island) Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes (closed in '94) Mike Fink Keelboats (closed in '99) Skyway (though no chance of this coming back anymore) Galaxy Palace Theater (now parking space for employees) Seasonal Only: Tortuga Tavern in Adventureland Tomorrowland Terrace I didn't include Fantasyland/Toontown as there is obviously work going on to (hopefully) plus this area from what is was the past 15 years. Also, this doesn't consider things like the Walt Disney Story, the Penny Arcade and Main Street Cinema, replaced by shops selling the same stuff you can find across property or non-functioning details like all of the fountains in Caribbean Plaza, the fountain by the Town Square Theater, the two Barker Birds at PotC and the Tiki Room, etc.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom ((>>The proof is that many people if not most people staying in Orlando are now breaking up their vacations and spending time at Universal and not exclusively WDW...<< There are no number, anywhere, to back up this idea.)) Doug, don't take my word for it. Ask James Cameron who spent sometime last week at WDW visiting DAK and the MK. Then spent a day at HarryPotter land with Disney management VPs wearing Disney name tags. There are pictures available also.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Doug, don't take my word for it.<< I won't. Because statistically, it's just not so.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<I won't. Because statistically, it's just not so.>> And scientifically speaking Bumble Bees can't fly. But they do! <<It's definitely not "most", but it's becoming more and more.>> Agreed! I live in Atlanta, within driving range of Orlando. By far the majority of my friends here in Atlanta are now breaking up their Orlando vacation trips to include Universal and Sea World. I can think of several situations where friends went to Orlando and only went to Universal and Sea World. I don't require statistics to prove a growing trend. Heck we have enough diehard Disney fans here who in the past month have vacationed at WDW and spent several days at Universal.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>...scientifically speaking Bumble Bees can't fly. But they do!<< <a href="http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1076/is-it-aerodynamically-impossible-for-bumblebees-to-fly" target="_blank">http://www.straightdope.com/co...s-to-fly</a> Forget statistics or science, and just look at the attendance figures of the Florida theme parks for 2010: Magic Kingdom: 19.9 million Epcot: 10.8 million Disney's Animal Kingdom: 9.68 million Disney's Hollywood Studios: 9.6 million TOTAL: Just under 47 million Universal's Islands of Adventure: 5.94 million Universal Studios Florida: 5.92 million TOTAL: Just under 12 million Now, in light of the facts (47 million vs. 12 million), explain how this shows that many, if not most guests heading to Florida are now including Universal in their trip.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 Yea i TOTALLLY believe MK had almost 20million in one year when it's 10K UNDER capacity. Why do you think they run so many EMHs, Xmas, and Halloween parties? To artifically inflate the numbers.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Yea i TOTALLLY believe MK had almost 20million in one year...<< Disney doesn't release these figures, so there's no way that they are artificially inflating them.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Why do you think they run so many EMHs, Xmas, and Halloween parties?<< To make money by attracting guests.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 oh yeah the hard ticket events drawing what 5K are the cause of 19.9M Absolutely- I TOTALLY beLieve it! I heard it from an Imaginear- it's fact. EMH inflates the number how ? Or and I guess those attending hard ticket or hopping from other parks later at night aren't REALLY people ? They don't bring their wallets with them ? In the case of hard ticket many of those people already paid for admittance at one of the parks or water park already that day - that should count even more. 19.9M is 54K per day coming or going- not necessarily there at one time.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""19.9M is 54K per day coming or going- not necessarily there at one time."" Yea and after 6years as a CM i cann tell YOU for a FACT ( dirty word here and on MAGICal boards) that post '09 there ain't no 54K hitting MK unless it was Spring Break, Christmas, or the middle of a Friday summer afternoon. But can TDO "make up" 54k days but adding in EMH and the parties? Probably...anything to keep Tokyo and DL, the TRUE title crowns, down.
