Originally Posted By inlandemporer I'm one of the moderates McCain needs to win over. I've voted for both parties for president, including Bush the first time, both ways for congress, both ways for senator, both ways for local office, you name it. I've been voting since 1980, and have probably voted 60/40 for Republicans, all tolled. I have been mightily disappointed in Bush and leaning more Democrat this decade as a result. If McCain wants my vote, he has to convince me he can fix the mess his party has made. We got none of that last night. Maybe we will tonight, I don't know. But last night was all far-right crap that put both me and my wife right off. Somebody mentioned "cheap shots" and that's what we really noticed. I compared it to Biden's speech for the obvious reason. Biden was tough, but for substantive reasons. Mostly, that if McCain is supporting most of Bush's policies on the major things, how can we expect things to change? He pounded that over and over, but that's policy. That's fair. Palin just took cheap shot after cheap shot, like Guiliani before her. Cheap shots about Obama's podium, like that matters, and crap about reading terrorists their rights and even cheap shots at community organizing, which, newsflash, is a job that helps ordinary people with their problems, though at a local level. When she got to the cheap shot about him "parting the waters," my wife and I just looked at each other and said "that's it." Her speech was a real turn-off to both of us, if anyone's interested in how two moderates saw it. I'll be interested to see if McCain will say anything that will bring him back into consideration for me. I want some actual substance, and not all this pandering to the far right of his party. Aren't the primaries over?
Originally Posted By mawnck From an Obama campaign email: >>Community organizing is how ordinary people respond to out-of-touch politicians and their failed policies.<<
Originally Posted By mawnck One more thing I'm seeing on several sites - You think the Republicans were energized by Sara Palin's speech last night, you oughta getta loada them Democrats. She REALLY ticked them off.
Originally Posted By ecdc I can't help but wonder why moderates still tolerate the Republican party. I may very well be wrong, but I don't remember Democrats being critical of moderates. They seem to know that they need them and Obama even moved more to the center, just as Bill Clinton did, to try and win them over. Republicans on the other hand, have openly expressed their disdain for moderates. They've called them "confused" and rather than try and reach out to moderates, they've expected their vote and instead worried more about energizing the base. It's really time to give the other guys a shot. Seriously. If they let you down, toss 'em out in 4 years and hope that the Republicans have learned their lesson in the meantime.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It's really time to give the other guys a shot. Seriously. If they let you down, toss 'em out in 4 years and hope that the Republicans have learned their lesson in the meantime." And this is what Republicans of right now don't seem to get. I've said it before, Bush has absolutely ruined it for any Republican candidate for many, many people. Fair or not, it's guilt by association. McCain could have picked Sarah Lee instead of Sarah Palin and it still wouldn't have mattered. Because nobody doesn't like Sarah Lee.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> When she got to the cheap shot about him "parting the waters," my wife and I just looked at each other and said "that's it." << Exactly. That's the kind of 'blowback' that I'm referring to. The overall snarky tone of palin's speech (coupled with giuliani's and thompson's speeches) seemed amateurish and pitching to the base. It appeals to people's lesser instincts for gossip and malicious slander. If they want to bring in swing voters, moderates and independents, they're going about it all wrong.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I agree that the snarky comment were not needed. It would have been a much better speech without the strange barbs at the temple columns set, etc.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Republicans on the other hand, have openly expressed their disdain for moderates. They've called them "confused" and rather than try and reach out to moderates, they've expected their vote and instead worried more about energizing the base.> I think (and I hope!) they're "fighting the last war." That very strategy worked in 2004 - when, to give the devil his due, it was against conventional wisdom, but Rove pulled it off. But 2008 isn't 2004. The war is now deeply unpopular (in 2004, a lot of people were still giving Bush the benefit of the doubt on it), the economy is in worse shape, and I don't think just bashing Democrats and fearmongering is going to work this time. I hope not. For one thing, even if the GOP base is energized now, the Democratic base is too, which is quite different from 2004.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<If McCain wants my vote, he has to convince me he can fix the mess his party has made.>> I have a feeling that if McCain wins there won't be ANY fixing of the Republican party. What would be the point? Instead, like Bush did back in 2004, the Republicans will probably just see the win as an invitation to continue their failed policies. At least if the Democrats take full control of Washington, they'll know that the only reason they're there is to make a change.
Originally Posted By mawnck The two protesters that disrupted Palin's speech were the leaders of Code Pink, an anti-war protest group: >>At the Xcel Energy Center on Wednesday night, as Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin spoke, two women who later identified themselves as Code Pink members heckled her, Harrington said. They had legitimate credentials and tickets to get in, and had been "dressed like all the convention goers," but apparently changed their clothes when they got inside, Harrington said. A Code Pink press release said the women approached the stage when Palin was speaking, adjusted their clothes to reveal pink slips that read, "Palin is not a woman's choice." They yelled, "Women say no to war!" and "Women need a vice president for peace!" for about a minute, the press release said. The women were removed from the convention floor, their credentials were taken and they were escorted off the property and let go, Harrington said. The women, Code Pink co-founders Medea Benjamin and Jodie Evans, were given their tickets to the speech "by a Republican delegate who was frustrated with the Republican party and Sarah Palin," the press release said.<< So that's how they got in. Hmmmm. <a href="http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_10380133" target="_blank">http://www.twincities.com/allh...10380133</a>
Originally Posted By dshyates "like Bush did back in 2004, the Republicans will probably just see the win as an invitation to continue their failed policies." You mean all that "Political Capital" Bush was given by the clear "mandate" of the American people.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I agree that the snarky comment were not needed. It would have been a much better speech without the strange barbs at the temple columns set, etc.<< Thanks for that, Utahjosh. Sen. McCain was once popular because he attempted to bridge the sort of partisan divides speeches like we heard last night foster. I am very interested in the tone of tonight's speech.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I'm very interested if it's going to contain any substantive policy at all. I'm not optimistic. So far this entire convention has been issue-free. Nothing about wars (other than vague allusions to "victory"), nothing about the economy or plans to restore it, and nothing specific about how or why a McCain administration would be any different from a Bush administration. McCain's campaign chief wasn't misspeaking when he said "this campaign isn't about the issues" - for them, it really isn't. But for the rest of us, it still is. The base is "energized" on stemwinder speeches with no actual content other than personal attacks on the other guy. Is this all they've got?
Originally Posted By Lisann22 <<<When she got to the cheap shot about him "parting the waters," my wife and I just looked at each other and said "that's it." Her speech was a real turn-off to both of us, if anyone's interested in how two moderates saw it.>>> That is the exact moment I posted "Alrighty I'm done" in here. Wake me up when the reruns of this SNL skit start again. I don't expect much from McCain tonight. I doubt we'll get anything on the economy, that hasn't happen for 18 months so I don't see why it would happen tonight.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I don't expect much from McCain tonight. I doubt we'll get anything on the economy, that hasn't happen for 18 months so I don't see why it would happen tonight.> Not much on the economy, probably, except in vaguest possible terms is my guess. We'll get a few sentences on "taxes," and the faithful will cheer, but no mention of how NOT changing Bush's tax code is somehow going to change the economy or get us out of the red ink we're swimming in.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <The base is "energized" on stemwinder speeches with no actual content other than personal attacks on the other guy. Is this all they've got?> There was a lot to the speech that I liked. Most of her speech was a "get to know you speech," not policies so much. Here are a few quotes that I liked hearing: "Here's a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators — I'm not going to Washington to seek their opinion. I'm going to Washington to serve the people of this country" "The fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all. Starting in January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we're going to lay more pipelines ... build more nuclear plants ... create jobs with clean coal ... and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal, and other alternative sources." "Children with special needs inspire a special love. To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House." "I'm not a member of the permanent political establishment." "Politics isn't just a game of clashing parties and competing interests. The right reason is to challenge the status quo, to serve the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it. No one expects us to agree on everything. But we are expected to govern with integrity, good will, clear convictions, and ... a servant's heart."
Originally Posted By mawnck Definitely good stuff, Josh. Too bad it was surrounded by all that other mess. I don't think anyone who saw the whole speech will remember it, and the MSM certainly won't use it in any of their sound bites. And with the exception of the energy policy, none of it spoke to the real issues in this campaign. Three of your 5 quotes were all "we're mavericks, yes we are, you betcha." Apparently I'm supposed to read into that that they're going to do exactly what I want them to.
Originally Posted By dshyates "and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal, and other alternative sources." Except McCain has voted against alternitives 8 times. McCain's energy policy is "I'll give the oil co.s more oil leases if they give me campaign financing."
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>"Here's a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators — I'm not going to Washington to seek their opinion. I'm going to Washington to serve the people of this country"<< Ah yes. Attack the media, maybe they'll back down and stop asking those pesky questions. Check. >>"Children with special needs inspire a special love. To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House."<< That's good. Will they be a friend and advocate for getting the special healthcare those special needs children need? Or is it more every-man-for-himself stuff? And what about the rest of the children, speaking of health care? Will they have an opportunity to enjoy the same health coverage members of congress and governors and vice presidents do? Because that would be a true friend and advocate. I hope that's what you meant. >>"I'm not a member of the permanent political establishment."<< Congratulations! You are now. Welcome to the club. Ms. Coulter will show you to your seat. >>"Politics isn't just a game of clashing parties and competing interests.<< It isn't a game at all. It affects people's actual lives. After the JumboTron has been returned to the studio warehouse, you should ponder that. >>The right reason is to challenge the status quo, to serve the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it.<< And if you're an illegal immigrant, just cut right to the "leave this nation" part of that. >>No one expects us to agree on everything. But we are expected to govern with integrity, good will, clear convictions, and ... a servant's heart."<< Oh yeah, your speech was chock full o' good will. It was hard to catch it in-between the sarcasm and smirking, but I'm sure there was some good will in there.
