Originally Posted By oc_dean And Hans .. you do make some very logical points .. especially on the scale of some of the buildings in that google page. Tomorrowland proper is what? 5 acres at best? It's not EPCOT .. that's for sure. >>Rather than trying to reinvent a concept of futurism that frankly few people care about anymore,<< But I have to disagree here .... What you see as a permanent view .. I see as a fad. I think you hit the nail on the head on the cynicism many people feel these days. But who said - flat out - "No, I care nothing about things "futuristic". If today's generations want to keep up the constant pessimistic view .. fine for them. But none of today's generations should be speaking for those in the future. I like a line out of Star Trek: The Voyage Home .. when McCoy said - "it's a miracle they got out of the 20th century." He was reflecting on the backward nature of this generation, that barely managed to not blow themselves up, by the turn of the 20th century. We aren't that far out of it, and with it .. the same generation is bringing in the same cynical sensibilities into this century. But our generation will pass, and I'm hoping future generations take a better grip of the future. Just because we can't .. does not mean future generations can't.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>* Witness a 2 story Starcade ... but with access to the 2nd story closed off, and left in a derelict state. Do you dare to take a look at the rest of it's sorry-state on the first floor??<< Don't forget that the first floor was recently semi-annexed by the Star Trader. The store moved in during a refurb before Star Tours reopened, but when the shop reopened, it never quite moved out. So instead of having a sad video arcade, we have a really sad looking store selling the same junk you can find all over the park (including some that can be found in the regular part of the Star Trader) with a row of video games along the back wall. It's like the mixed-use development of the future...at least I sure hope not!
Originally Posted By Manfried <<and think they can leave something up for 20-30 years>> Then why do so many people protest when they (Disney) dare to make a change to Pirates (44 years old) or Tom Sawyer Island (even older) ???
Originally Posted By berol My family and I have so many wonderful memories of the derelict Peoplemover track throughout the years. If they so much as touch it, I will march on City Hall!
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle Great discussion. I love the idea of a "whole new tomorrowland". Re-designed exteriors along with AT LEAST new attractions for the Peoplemover Tracks, Innoventions, and Captain EO. But at this point, after 10 years, I'd just take the old peoplemover back on its track and be happy. Because to me, even though it is a retreat to the past (and honestly not a very exciting attraction), something is better than nothing. I do believe that very shortly after the DCA 2.0 premier next summer, we will get a big announcement for what is next for Disneyland. As much as I love the rumors about expansion to Frontierland, etc., I'd rather see Tomorrowland get a major overhaul.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "You have a very selective memory Yookeroo, (but I would expect that from you) ... As I have many times stated I'm interested in seeing a totally new concept in something 'out of this world' .. and not a repeat of the same, or near copy of the '67 design and format." Yeah, we know. Paint those PM trains bright colors so they pop! "But I have to disagree here .... What you see as a permanent view .. I see as a fad." What makes you think Futurism wasn't the fad? "I do believe that very shortly after the DCA 2.0 premier next summer, we will get a big announcement for what is next for Disneyland. As much as I love the rumors about expansion to Frontierland, etc., I'd rather see Tomorrowland get a major overhaul." I actually think I'd prefer a Frontierland overhaul. It's got one real attraction, a couple of boat rides and a kid's play area. And it can be argued that it has lost its original focus as much as Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By Manfried <<I actually think I'd prefer a Frontierland overhaul. It's got one real attraction, a couple of boat rides and a kid's play area. And it can be argued that it has lost its original focus as much as Tomorrowland.>> Boy is that the truth. It has lots of land too.
Originally Posted By CDF2 Well, there is a saying about you can never go home again - as far as DL's Tomrrowland goes, for those of us that have seen it develop over the years and marveled at the "original" refurbishment that included the Peoplemover and the Rocket Jets on the upper level of the hub, there really has been nothing done since that has really recaptured that original idea of a futuristic setting. The cartoonish treatment that was part of the Eisner rethinking has left the place in a somewhat "Netherworld" state with a group of attractions that don't quite fit together and leave certain dead zones within the area that gives the place a bit of a "waiting for urban renewal" feeling. Sure, it would be nice if there was some kind of moving attraction on the abandoned tracks as it gives the area a kinetic appeal and energy. But who knows if anybody at Disney wants to take on the albatross of trying to invent a new version of Tomorrowland that can link such diverse attractions like Nemo, Buzz, Star Tours and Space Mountain together with any kind of continuity.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>What makes you think Futurism wasn't the fad? << What do you define as Futurism?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>And I guarantee only 35 people would go on the Peoplemover on a regular basis.<< And I guarantee that this is statistically dead wrong. >>What you see as a permanent view .. I see as a fad.<< And this is the real problem that underlies the Tomorrowland concept. Today's future is just as likely as not to end up tomorrow's fad. The Monsanto House is today viewed with a healthy dose of camp nostalgia. And the Company is not willing to make major, major investments in something that will likely be viewed in the same way in less than ten years.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'm all for futurism, but trying to predict 20-30 years ahead has that inherent problem. Which is why I've often wondered... why not a TL that looks two or three HUNDRED years ahead? That would allow for sci-fi, but would also allow for more of the sci-fact stuff that TL used to do so well (e.g. ATIS). Imagine TL as an urban environment from 2412. We're never going to actually (at least no time soon) shrink to atom size; an ATIS with 21st century technology could rock. Or something about genetics, or nanotechnology or biotech or "beaming" to different destinations, or anything that might be part of our lives 2 or 3 hundred years from now. Of course, I don't see them doing it; too many things that they've poured too much money into (notably the subs and the autopia) wouldn't fit. But - just stay with me for a minute - maybe they could revive the loading area for the FaL autopia and make that officially a FaL attraction (it would be even better if they'd replace the whole NE corner of the park, but this particular "blue sky" exercise isn't that ambitious...) and make a new loading area for the subs that's next door to that, so also officially FaL. Then Space, ST, Buzz (sorta) all fit; a new attraction in the Innoventions space could be tailored specifically for the new concept, and the same for the Eo/Starcade area. The PM track could be removed and perhaps a new above-the-land attraction could be added. The biggest problem with the Rocket Rods was trying to fit them on the existing PM track; creating something new with track designed specifically FOR it would eliminate that problem. Obviously, I'd like to see the AO-type ride, if they keep it, put back up high where it belongs. And just make everything from the ST/Buzz facades to the new Innoventions and Eo facades fit in with the "urban 25th Century" theme.
Originally Posted By Bellella They will have to rebuild the PM track probably completely before they can put a new ride up there. Its been torn down in some places and completely left to the mercy of the elements. But whatever they have to do to bring the PM back, please do it! As for the rest of Tomorrowland, keep the Nemo subs if you absolutely have to. Put Astro Orbiter back on top, put something cooler in the Carousel Theater, keep Space Mountain at all costs, and for the love of all things humane, will you PLEASE give the Autopia cars all-electric power? I haven't been on that one in over two years, simply because the fumes make me sick!
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Imagine TL as an urban environment from 2412.>> Yeah, I imagine parking my hovercraft in front of the local 7-11 for a Dr.Pepper.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Me too! Oh, if only they sold Dr. Pepper in DL. We can only imagine the Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow that would represent. (Side note: I believe I had my first-ever Mr. Pibb - Coke's answer to Dr. Pepper - at Coke Corner on Main Street. I'm not sure I've ever seen it sold in a store; just at fountains where Coke products are sold.)
Originally Posted By CDF2 Really, isn't it just a case of having somebody with a vision of some kind that they are willing to apply to the Tomorrowland area?
Originally Posted By phruby I say remove the PM track and replace it with a suspended rollercoaster track. Make the coaster look like flying cars. Then turn the innoventions building into a two level version of Horizons. Move the Space Mountain queue to inside the old Starcade and add a preshow like WDS's Armageddon. Add a stage to the magic eye theater roof. Change the magic eye theater into a highly themed space restraunt simular to the Outlanders club in Attack of the Clones. Remove Pizza Planet and put in an updated ATIS or even a rocket ride to another world outside our galaxy. Finally remove Astro Orbiter completely from the land. Put a real spinning clock and laser show on top of rocket plazza.
Originally Posted By ImgineerBob what they could do is do what IOA did with their high in the sky suess trolly train ride before it opened, and turn it into a sight decoration and install futuristic cars that just run at a medium speed along the track that look like they are delivering goods and passengers across the galaxy.
Originally Posted By CDF2 Why not just build a smaller version of the Excelerator ride from Knotts where the main runway leading up to the tower is the one going right down the middle of Tomorrowland with the tower rising out of the current Innoventions building and the track turning left and running out over the sub/autopia area? Would be very exciting as one enters Tomorrowland to see a futuristic coaster train accelerating down the center of the area. Or they could build a Mos Eiseley Cantina with stage show that repeats every half hour - kind of Chuck E. Cheese on steriods. So many different things that could be done but again its a question of priorities is it not?
Originally Posted By crazycroc They might as well rename Tomorrowland, "SpaceFantasyLand" because that is what it is. Autopia could be torn out, make Nemo a fantasyland attraction and add 6-7 new Fantasyland darkrides could be put in, and we could just leave Space Mountain, Star Tours, and Buzz running and the majority of folks wouldn't think twice about missing Innoventions, R2P2, the astrorbiter, the dvc cart, the ball, the stupid spinning thing on the roof that doesn't work, or the empty people mover track.
Originally Posted By oc_dean I'll spare everyone my own armchair ideas that will never happen - I just want to see SOMETHING ... traveling "second level" that provides a kinetic energy for the land's aesthetic, and gives everyone a ride to enjoy. I prefer a leisurely ride traveling the same 16 minutes that the whole family can enjoy together ... But if it has to run a to a degree faster, than so be it. I'm not interested in a land like it was pre 1967 (which is what is rumored) ... with a just a bunch of "static" buildings .... with little "life" happening.
