Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "We're not talking about desecrating a sacred and priceless object here. It's a book." You're not missing the point, but since you insist on saying what you do, you are. it may just be a book, but that book represents something to these people. And since we are a guest there, no matter how crazy that sounds, we need to wach these things. Surely there are cultural oddities you observe in Japan to show respect, if nothing else.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "This makes it sound like the guy was on a tourist visa or something." No matter, If this happened in the U.S., then I wouldn't give a rip either. But it didn't, it happened in a country full of religious fanatics, and that alone should put one on notice that anything they consider disrespectful is going to get a wild reaction.
Originally Posted By DlandDug It's irrational, it's illogical, but it's also a well known fact (especially for our troops stationed in Iraq) that you don't mess with the physical object that is the Koran. The soldier who did this had to know exactly what he was doing, and be aware that there could be severe consequences. Christians, generally speaking, do not place the same level of reverence, or veneration, on physical objects (ie: Bibles, statues, structures). Some do, but they are very much in the minority. Would a similar desecration of a Christian symbol bring the same level of ire from our government? No. In fact, there have been recent cases in which government funded artists have used traditional Christian symbols in ways that have been deeply offensive. (A crucifix dipped in urine and an elephant dung painting of the Virgin Mary, for example.) >>...if he'd objected on philosophical moral grounds, without invoking religion, he still would've been drafted.<< No, conscientious objectors may evoke religious, moral or ethical issues in their arguments. Because the vast majority are based on religious belief, it may seem that this gets an immediate pass. But anyone, religious or not, who wishes to go the CO route has a great deal to prove in that effort.
Originally Posted By X-san ***But it didn't, it happened in a country full of religious fanatics, and that alone should put one on notice that anything they consider disrespectful is going to get a wild reaction.*** I'm not talking about their reaction, Passholder, it was hardly unexpected. I was talking about ours.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I was talking about ours." All things considered, including the respect angle, an appropriate one. "We're not. We invaded the place." See above. All the more reason, I'd say. So I'm guessing from your silence there are Japanese customs you observe out of respect as well.
Originally Posted By X-san Don't guess anything from my silence, that's just assumption. Anyway, no I don't find it appropriate (have they ever returned the favor, by the way?), and like I said at the very beginning I just find it very sad that people give more respect to the shooting of a book than they do the shooting of a human being (including countrymen of these very same morons who are screaming severe punishment for the book shooter...I'd bet their idea of "severe punishment" is nothing short of death). In any case, I'm not aware of any Japanese customs which if violated will get you dismissed with prejudice and demoted.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Answer the question directly- are there any Japanese customs you observe simply to show respect?
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>***have to agree with William on this one. You don't go to someone's country and destroy things they consider sacred.*** We're not talking about desecrating a sacred and priceless object here. It's a book. Plenty more can be made if one becomes damaged.<< Remember, I'm a Catholic and consider the Blessed Sacrament to be God. If someone desecrates a Sacred Host in my presence, I'm going to be pretty pissed about it. To the Muslims, the Koran is not God but it is a very sacred object to them. They don't have the concept of "there's a lot of them, so it's no biggie." It's what it contains, the words of their "prophet" that makes it sacred. >>Once again, why don't we show so much horror and outrage when HUMAN BEINGS get shot?<< Who says I don't? Personally, I think that the people in charge of Blackwater should all be hung by their toes.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad To the OP: It isn't about "the book." It's about disrespect for something another person holds dear. Yes I am quit sure Christians would be up in arms about a Bible being shot. I am sure many Americans cringe when they see the American Flag burned. It is only a book, yes, but there is no need to do it. Did the book threated the soldier in some way? Of course not.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Answer the question directly- are there any Japanese customs you observe simply to show respect?" Bueller?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip We showed absolutely no respect for the people, it's culture and religion when we invaded. Why change now? They shoot us; we shoot their book. Seems like a fair trade to me.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Answer the question directly- are there any Japanese customs you observe simply to show respect?*** I might, if you were a little more polite about it.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad LOL X-san why do you live in Japan? I wouldn't live there, and if I did I wouldn't admit it. I'm only kidding, but I'll bet that when you were reading that you were getting offended and those are only words. That't not even shooting at anything. Japan is my number 2 of places I want to visit "someday". Egypt is #1. <--- I just threw that tid bit in as bonus.
Originally Posted By X-san WorldDisney has been to Egypt. He brought back some awesome pictures. It's just so weird to see a friend just standing there in front of a pyramid.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I am going next March '09 with my oldest son for a 10 day. I am BEYOND excited and a little scared as well.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan It is worth noting that the outrage over shooting the Koran and cartoons depicting the Muslim prophet send people into a tizzy. The level of outrage over that vs. the random senseless killings and violence still shocks me at this late date. It is a strange land, the Middle East. Life itself seems very cheap, yet inanimate objects are protected at all costs. An "offensive" cartoon is published, riots in the streets. But then again, we do get into a tizzy here in the US when a flag is burned, or when an "artist" dips a cross in urine, and yet we read about death tolls in this war and daily violence on the streets of American cities and don't have a whole lot of reaction, either. We may feel some sadness, but we don't seem to get very preoccupied with real deaths as much as we do about symbolic gestures like torching a flag. Maybe it's just a very stange little planet, after all. Maybe the one thing that humans 'round the globe have in common is a short attention span, a fondness for getting worked up over symbolic things rather than actual horrors.
Originally Posted By X-san ***It is worth noting that the outrage over shooting the Koran and cartoons depicting the Muslim prophet send people into a tizzy. The level of outrage over that vs. the random senseless killings and violence still shocks me at this late date.*** Precisely the point I was driving at. Thanks, K2M.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But then again, we do get into a tizzy here in the US when a flag is burned, or when an "artist" dips a cross in urine>> But as far as I know the President has never demanded that anyone apologize for such acts or requested the severest possible punishment. America will never be as eff'ed up as the Middle East.
