Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I'm against his influence in principle, and hate that he has power over anyone to begin with. And as an atheist, I think ignoring him alltogether is the best thing to do. << Ditto Constance! All religions claiming they know "the word of ~God~" .. is as preposterous to me ... as if I made a church on worshiping the Color Wheel .. and deluding people to believe the Color Wheel speaks words to me directly from God himself! Note - I say "him" ... as we humans love creating "God Constructs" as something human, with a human male face up there in the blue sky ... Up - Up And awayyyy .... My Beautiful ... My Beautiful Male God!
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Awwwwwww, you made a church about the color wheel! That makes me happy.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>And as an atheist, I think ignoring him alltogether is the best thing to do.<< The spiritual leader of 1.2 million humans? Suit yourself.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But the very fact that these people let these men become so powerful is a very serious issue and becomes problematic and leaves issues for the rest of the world to deal with." Right on point, which is exactly why we shouldn't give the opinions of these men so much weight. Only a fool waits for the Pope to tell them what or how to think.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The spiritual leader of 1.2 million humans? Suit yourself. You can't seriously believe that all people who claim to be Catholic actually take the Pope at his word.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The spiritual leader of 1.2 million humans?<< Swap that m with a b and you're on the money
Originally Posted By ecdc >>You can't seriously believe that all people who claim to be Catholic actually take the Pope at his word.<< Of course they don't. But they don't exactly revile him, either. I suspect there's plenty of progressive Catholics who are ecstatic about this development. Having ammo from the faith's leadership is enormously powerful.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance "The spiritual leader of 1.2 billion humans? Suit yourself." Yes, ignore the man. If everyone ignored what him and the rest of his hoodlums say, think of how much better the world would be. I know just me ignoring him won't make much difference, but just think if can start a revolution and suddenly everyone's ignoring him! Then he can retract his tolerance and spout hate till the cows come home and it will make zero difference. We'll all just point and laugh at his ridiculous ignorance.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>If everyone ignored what him and the rest of his hoodlums say, think of how much better the world would be.<< But you see my point, right? Everyone is NOT going to ignore him, under any circumstances. Your revolution is not going to happen. So he matters, no matter how hard atheists pray for him not to. ;-)
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance If you knew how weird and unimaginable it is for me to think that there are people who would form their opinions based on what the Pope says they should think. My brain won't go there. But regardless, I do need to lead by example, don't I? Be the change, and all that, right? Let's stop putting so much power in his hands. Let's start holding people accountable for their own actions and beliefs. And if they try to use the Pope as an excuse for their bigotry, let's call them on it and let them know how truly weak and mindless that really makes them.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "We'll all just point and laugh at his ridiculous ignorance." The Pope's ignorance? This Pope's ignorance? Uh-huh, sure. I'm not a Catholic. I think the Catholic religion is right there with Mormonism on my utter lack of respect scale. Just the same, as mawnck says, ignore this Pope at your own peril. In his short time as Pope, he's said and done more things many people find refreshing and favorable than all the rest of the Popes put together. He might not set policy as an individual, but when he says things like "who am I to judge" it rocks the world of a lot of Catholics, and the world itself has a lot of Catholics. Want to effect change? Work WITH the opposition, rather than ignore them. Things get accomplished much faster. Look no further than Congress to see what happens when no one wants to talk.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Everyone is NOT going to ignore him, under any circumstances. Your revolution is not going to happen." It is happening, although very quietly. Catholic membership is declining and so is the Pope's influence. He has no choice but to change his tone on homosexuals, along with a whole bunch of other pressing issues like abortion and women's rights, if he wants the Church to be relevant in the 21st century.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>It is happening, although very quietly. Catholic membership is declining and so is the Pope's influence. He has no choice but to change his tone on homosexuals, along with a whole bunch of other pressing issues like abortion and women's rights, if he wants the Church to be relevant in the 21st century.<<< It's declining, because we have to pay a "membership fee", at least in Austria, and people don't want to pay anymore. So they stop, but still consider them Catholics, like me. And religion in general isn't that important to us anymore. We don't go to church, we don't live accordingly to the church's principles. When I lived in Ohio, I got the impression that religion is so much more important to Americans than to Europeans. There have been religious meetings on the campus of the University. You will not find that here, at least at state owned universities, because state and religion are seperated. Neither the Catholic church nor any other religious group has that much influence on everdays politics like in the US. No party, even the conservatives would bring any religious things into an election, because they would lose.
Originally Posted By dagobert And of course it's also declining because of the sexual abuse cases, but it's in my opinion it's not declining because of the things the pope says. The main reason is that religion isn't that important anymore.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >> "Everyone is NOT going to ignore him, under any circumstances. Your revolution is not going to happen." It is happening, although very quietly. << The information age we live in (Internet) is doing it. The amount of youtube videos done by all sorts of people. Novices, professionals bringing up important points and important questions religious people DON'T want to answer .. or don't know how to. When I was growing up with the big three TV networks ... there were stories they would never bring up THEN. Keeping the masses in the dark, on various issues. But now ... with the internet - There's no hiding anymore. No more pulling a fast one on everyone. "You just have to have faith". Sorry! There are a growing number of people questioning that. No more putting a blind fold on people. Those days are long gone! Thankfully!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Catholic membership is declining<< Which may not be true for much longer if this Pope keeps it up. Not that I'm going to run out and sign up myself. >>No party, even the conservatives would bring any religious things into an election, because they would lose.<< Sounds lovely. Can I come live with you? No candidate here would *neglect* to do so, because THEY would lose.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Sounds lovely. Can I come live with you? No candidate here would *neglect* to do so, because THEY would lose.<<< Best example is our abortion law. During the first three months it is legal and religious groups fight against that law, but even the conservative party, which forms our government with the social democrats, doesn't support these groups. They even want to keep the law themselves.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance "As a Catholic it's nice to know I'm considered a hoodlum" I didn't realize you were in the Pope's inner circle.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Which may not be true for much longer if this Pope keeps it up. Not that I'm going to run out and sign up myself." Even the most progressive Pope will stop the decline. Slow it, sure, but religion is slowly dying (and that's not a bad thing).
