Originally Posted By TomSawyer "Hey if you want Big Brother constantly watching you and your families then be my guest." I want Big Brother constantly watching businesses to make sure that they aren't selling harmful products or using their wealth to take advantage of those without as much wealth.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Hey if you want Big Brother constantly watching you and your families then be my guest.<< I'd rather have Big Brother watching YOU, based on your attitude here, and your refusal to even TRY to think about things a teeny little bit.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Hey if you want Big Brother constantly watching you and your families then be my guest.<< I'd say strawman for the umpteenth time, and ask that you actually respond to what we said instead of what you think we said, but it's clear DAR is back and not interested in the conversation.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'd say strawman for the umpteenth time, and ask that you actually respond to what we said instead of what you think we said, but it's clear DAR is back and not interested in the conversation.>> I did, and the post was thoroughly ignored because it is more fun to toss "strawman" charges at mawnck.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Your belief that only government can do that is sadly out of touch in my opinion.<< Except no one said that, either. There are definitely some companies that offer great benefits for their employees. But there have always been jobs that did that; the story for the lower classes remains the same. No one in minimum wage jobs gets those benefits you talked about. A lot of companies instituted those other benefits as a response to the threat of unionization. A good thing that those things exist, no question, but in many cases they wouldn't if it weren't for the pressure of unions. No one has said all companies are evil, bad, or interested in exploiting their workers. This thread started as a response to the narrow definition of freedom by a libertarian think tank. It's common among libertarians to espouse similar thoughts. The only thing anyone has pointed out is the problems with libertarian philosophy and the abuses that can happen without government regulation. These arguments have been responded to with lazy one-liners about big brother and how we seem to think government can fix everything. Except...no one has argued that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<No one in minimum wage jobs gets those benefits you talked about. A lot of companies instituted those other benefits as a response to the threat of unionization.>> I may be naive, but I think some companies really try to do the right thing. While my wife was unemployed she worked about 8-10 hours a week at a restaurant. While she did not qualify for the insurance employees working more than 30 hours a week received, she was able to buy minimal group coverage through the employer paying the premium herself. Though it would have probably covered only about 10% the cost of a hospitalization, it had good coverage of routine office visits and prescriptions with a relatively low co-pay. While not great insurance it was better than nothing and better than trying to pay for a very expensive COBRA policy through her former employer at a time of very reduced income. She also received a similar policy while working for a temp agency. I don't think there is one unionized restaurant in all of SW Missouri so I doubt that was much of a threat, and I doubt temp workers anywhere are unionized. Now she has full time employment with the County Prosecutor's Office and has GREAT insurance that is fully paid by the employer... the employee pays nothing of the premium. Yes, life is good sucking off the government teat. ;-)
Originally Posted By ecdc I've worked for both. Currently I work for an incredible company. Small (eight employees) and the owner is fantastic. I feel very fortunate. I know there's a lot of small business owners out there like this. Until recently, I worked for a giant corporation. I rose high enough (which wasn't that much) to see just how creepy otherwise decent people can become under the pressures of trying to push growth quarter after quarter. I routinely heard managers and executives talk about how they wish they could cut benefits, how lazy employees were, etc. At one point, in a large meeting, it was announced that four other huge offices (thousands of people) had been closed and the employees let go, and that we would be converted to a different kind of office to do their job. People cheered; the thought of thousands being out of work didn't phase them at all, they were just happy to have more prestigious responsibilities.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "The free market DOES respond to the needs of employees. Today over 90% of business with 50 employees or more provide employee health insurance. NOT because the government says they must (yet), but because they know it is good business to have happy, healthy and productive employees. They also know that to attract GOOD employees, that type of benefit must be provided. Same thing goes for flex-time. job-sharing, on-site daycare, etc. Government never told them they had to do it. They do it because they know that in the long run it is cheaper to attract AND RETAIN quality employees than it is to hire and train a constant parade of low-quality employees who leave the minute something better comes along. Your belief that only government can do that is sadly out of touch in my opinion." Welllllll................... no. When I was with Target from 1994 through mid-2000 while going to law school and then studying for the bar, a department manager was paid hourly and worked "officially" 37.5 hours a week. I was in loss prevention, made a salary as the store security manager, and worked at least 40 a week. The 37.5 hour people, managers or just regular full time workers, were eligible for benefits because they worked at least 37.5 hours. As time went on, in order to cut costs, their hours were cut to 35 hours a week, and they no longer had health insurance. Since I left in August of 2000, I've heard now and then of similar tactics by Target and other retailers. In my job now, non-custodial parents are ordered to provide health insurance if it is available through their employers. In anticipation of "Obamacare", premiums rose dramatically even though they didn't have to so insurance companies could "show" how horrible it was going to be. The California legislature finally had to pass a law that said effective 1/1/12, if it costs more than 5% of a person's monthly gross to add the children to his health insurance, he's excused from having to provide it. The kids can go on a government run health plan instead. We're excusing parents several times each day now from providing health care because the cost is too high. It's too high because the premiums rose, but also because the jobs simply don't pay what they used to. A guy who made $18-20 an hour is now lucky to make $12. Off shoring SUCKS, and it anything can be done about, it should be done about it. Off shoring is what happens without government regulation, which leads to shareholder greed, which leads to the 1% hoarding all the goddamn money. Having worked in government now for the last 12 years, I am absolutely convinced we need Big Brother, because even though the majority of people are honest and trustworthy, the majority of people do not control jobs and business. (How much did you last pay for gas, DAR?)Pure and simple greed is human nature, and not all humans can be trusted to do the right thing.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Today over 90% of business with 50 employees or more provide employee health insurance.<< And they are also switching to employees paying a higher and higher percentage of the premiums. Many won't even pay for coverage for dependents. If anything, it has become worse and "Mr. Market" has not made things better.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I did, and the post was thoroughly ignored because it is more fun to toss "strawman" charges at mawnck.<< It sucks to be meeeeeeeee! I'll just leave this here: <a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r0VGvpt3KbQ/T3lJCoLP4ZI/AAAAAAAADDU/-dCdPbkpcog/s1600/capitalism.jpg" target="_blank">http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r0VG...lism.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Ivan keep talking bad about rand paul around here and watch what happens next election when he beats obama by landslide good people every where are starting to wake up and know what the govement is doing to us we will see how funny you look eating a crow bird
Originally Posted By TomSawyer People should first wake up and understand how many times a person can be president.
Originally Posted By Ivan sorry about that and you are right big foot for my mouth this time and it is emberassing to admit it to you this is why america is the best because we dont have to live with tyranny from the same guy year after year. Omamas rain will end soon enough. there i said it so dont be mad at the messanger please
Originally Posted By Ivan its good fine people every where have computers now unlike before his rain so that the word will spread to voters this is better than a tv to help tell people about what hes doing to us WERE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Omamas rain will end soon enough.> He's controlling the weather now? IS THERE NO END TO HIS TYRANNY????!!!!
