Originally Posted By LadyandtheTramp When we used to travel to visit WDW with the family, we used to plan which park we were going to on each day of our vacation, but left where to eat to the day itself (other than for character dining). That allowed us to pick and choose based on how we felt that day. And with the Gold Key plan (father of all prepaid plans), that left us with a broad range of choices without diffuculty. Now, we two are relatively locals (one hour), and our advanced planning for meals is to use the WDW Dining reservations website as we're going out the door. The day of, we decide either which park we want to go to -- and then pick a restaurant -- or we decide which restaurant we feel like, which determines which park we'll visit. Preplanning is now down to 5 minutes. We used to be worse - we'd be driving in the car to the world, and call reservations to see what we could get into when we wanted to. And in the 9 or so years we did that, I would guess that I could count on one hand the number of times that we couldn't get into one of our choices for the meal. And on those time, we would always rely on getting into Olivia's or The Wave (or its predecessor, the Steakhouse). The reason why we use the reservations website now is that it is probably the only Disney computer system that works worth a darn, and acutally provides reasonably accurate information. Yes, sometimes it shows no availablity but when you walk up they get you in, but for the most part, if it says a slot is available, you get in. So while we've operated in both modes, I think that last minute is much better, but I can afford to do that since we're here. (Our out-of-town son, though, is putting together his spreadsheet for his June vacation - guess the kids do pick things up from the folks.)
Originally Posted By danyoung But there's no way that you can do last minute and still get in to the top places like the Coral Reef, Le Cellier or Cinderella's. Those book totally solid months in advance. As long as you have some flexibility in where you want to eat, then you can have some success with last minute bookings.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But there's no way that you can do last minute and still get in to the top places like the Coral Reef, Le Cellier or Cinderella's.>> And I don't think that has changed much over the years. We took our daughter to Breakfast with Cindy in the castle during our 1994 visit and had to call months in advance for any chance at ressies. Even then, we ended up with such a gosh-awful early time slot that my daughter grumbled through the whole thing about how tired she was! LOL
Originally Posted By 999HAUNTS Put me in the "planner" category, please. Being able to plan ahead of time which restaurant I'm dining in gives me plenty of time to budget money. That also goes for being able to book tours in advance, and the Halloween extras offered through some of the WDW hotels. I'm not well off financially by any means. We only get to WDW every 2-3 years. It's also a plus for my daughter and I to know what time we need to be somewhere. I don't plan hardcore for each day of our trip, just the few days where we know where we want to eat or what tour we'd like to try. And knowing that I'm not on a stand-by list to eat eases my mind. As for fastpasses, I love those, too. Having an assigned time to return and ride further helps me to plan the day to get the most out of what little time I have there.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 So, I really don't agree that getting a meal was a problem back in the 'no spreadsheet planning' days. --- sorry - totally disagree-- maybe it was the time of year or whatever- I always had June-July due to kids in school others.( The times I went after labor day when kids wewre real little I would agree with you- but got shut out manytimes insummer) - used to piss me off
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<--- sorry - totally disagree-- maybe it was the time of year or whatever- I always had June-July due to kids in school others.( The times I went after labor day when kids wewre real little I would agree with you- but got shut out manytimes insummer) - used to piss me off>> I still think many people's view of how WDW "used to be" is colored by the rose-tinted lenses of years gone by and the undeniable glory of the first few visits.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Guys, I'm not THAT young (but I can tell jokes that 14-year-olds would laugh at!) ... but I'm not talking about my first visit or even first dozen or two. I'm saying that from say 1982-2002, getting into most places for meals was never a problem except on holidays. And that Disney never used to turn away people who wanted to wait, while half the restaurant was empty because they staffed based on ressies and DDP alone. We can go back and forth with this all month if you'd like, but it's only been this decade (and really post the 2005 intro of the DDP) that folks who haven't planned months in advance have often gotten screwed.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo What is also very interesting is how, yet again, this problem only really exists in WDW. In Disneyland and Disneyland Paris, it is still possible to visit most restaurants as a walk up or same day reservation with only a couple of exceptions. And capacity per capita is pretty much on par between the resorts.
Originally Posted By danyoung The "evil" in all of this, IMO, is the Disney Dining Plan. You have thousands of people every day who used to be happy with fast food or even eating in their hotel room or somewhere off property, now dining in the nice sitdown restaurants. The demand on the restaurants is MUCH greater than it was back in the 90's. Most on property restuarants run at almost full capacity now, which leaves no room at all for walk-ups. I'm both happy and angry that people who were formerly happy with a burger and fries are now enjoying the nicer side of Disney dining. What really gripes me is the family that goes into a more or less exotic French or Moroccan or Italian restaurant and demands burgers and mac-n-cheese. This has directly caused the simplifying of the menus, which has cut down on MY enjoyment when dining Disney.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Dave, how many hotel rooms does Disneyland Paris have? I wonder if the dining problems don't have as much to do with the fact that hotel capacity is so great at WDW (and, of course, you have the off property hotels). With the advent of the long stay hopper passes I think people feel they need to stay in the parks in order to get the value out of those passes. This prevents them from experiencing out of park restaurants as much as they could be. And, of course, most non property guests are going to eat in the parks versus going back to their I-Drive hotels and looking for a restaurant.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Danny, I agree, it is DDP that has had a negative impact. Similarly at DLP, since they have been pushing it more, they have retooled some of the nicer table service offerings and turned them into damn buffets (every DLP has a buffet now, and one of them even has 2!!!!! grrrrr). Skipper - you may have a point. Though the majority of visitors are one site at DLP and never leave property either. There are 5200 Disney owned hotel rooms, and 9 hotels within 2 miles of the parks (sorry, not sure about how many rooms). And the park had 15.3m guests in 2008. Now for this size population, there are 22 table service or buffet restaurants (where the average family dines for 90-150 minutes - much longer than most American dining experiences). WDW is harder to report on, but I have seen estimates that in the same period attendance figures at Disney World: The Magic Kingdom sees 17 million visitors a yea, Epcot - 11 million Disney's Hollywood Studios and Disney's Animal Kingdom each get about 9.5 million visitors per year. Some of those visitors may be overlaps, because people may visit more than one park on a single trip. But they are decent indicators. Again, in 2008 there were 25,126 rooms (so five times as many as DLP), villas, and cabins on property (more now with the Treehouse Villas, Kidani, BLT etc.). But for table and buffet restaurants, WDW had 85 (ok, not quite 4 times as many, though they tend to be larger restaurants than their Parisian cousin, and the turn over of guests is higher). I do think it is the DDP crowd in the main. And although DL is much smaller and people can and do go elsewhere, there are only 15 table service I think?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I didn't realize that the majority of park visitors were on site at DLP. Interesting. Considering the good cuisine in Paris I would have just assumed that more people would disregard the parks for dinner leaving capacity less burdened.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I know so many Brits that have been to DLP multiple times but have never been to Paris. Or the UNESCO 13th century town of Provins, 30 minutes to the south, nor the champagne wineries to the East. And many guests I think have the view that Paris is too far (it is 35-60 minutes to the centre of Paris), they could do a seperate trip to Paris and DLP it too expensive to waste, and many are francophobic too. I find it very sad. Heck, the Val D Europe shopping centre is 2 minutes by train, 5 minutes by car or 20 minute walk. It is Walt's real Epcot - a Disney town fully planned and more fully realised than Celebration, with one of Europe's largest shopping malls, including many excellent eateries (including a seafood restaurant where the windows look into the tanks of the Sealife Centre and a fantastic chinese that does sweet and sour lobster, Japanese, Steakhouse, Middle Eastern, Indian, Korean BBQ, Tapas, 3 Italian places, creperie, several french, McD's etc.). so many visitors do not even bother with it, even though the food is a fraction of the cost, and some better quality than most of the on property places.
Originally Posted By fastpasswontlast Hello eveyone, thanks for all the feedback and welcomes! On the issues stated: Magic Kingdom is problematic, but I view Hollywood Studios as being over-saturated with people as well in an almost constant fashion. Of all the parks, Studios was the most stressful to be in, IMO. I find no issue with planning reservations to restaurants on property. More of what I'm talking about with the schedule mentality revolves around planning out rides and letting fastpasses and wait times affect your choice in ride/park attendance. People should go to attractions because they want to, not because the wait time is short and people should go to a park not because "this park is going to have the lowest attendance on this given day." By all means, plan your meals (but don't use DDP, I think we lost money on that and overate every meal), Disney World has great food at many of their restaurants and hotels (with the exception of Magic Kingdom where the Dole Whip reigns supreme). I encourage spontaneity to some degree because that's in the disney spirit. IF people chilled out and rode some rides not caring about wait times and fastpasses and dining plans, Disney World would be a more relaxed place. Not like the pool of angry, disorganized tourists on schedules that it has become. I urge you all to adopt this mindset, be polite to everyone around, and enjoy everything Walt worked for. I ran into so many angry people, it was ridiculous. People who would openly yell at each other over small things... JUST BE POLITE PEOPLE. IS IT SO HARD!?!
Originally Posted By wahooskipper But, you have to consider the value proposition. If I'm going to spend what is closing in on a one day price of $100 then I am going to feel like I need to "do it all" (or a lot of it anyway). If the average number of attractions a guest is getting on now at the MK is 7 (or was it 9) I'm not sure I will leave thinking I got my money's worth. Now, of course, the multi day tickets bring the daily cost down but I think people will still judge their visits not on quality but on quantity. Particularly when a lot of guests to WDW aren't going to be visiting more than once a year. I think that is why the character Meet 'n Greets, though unpopular on this Board, are so important. If you have a daugther who is heart set on getting to see Cinderella (or one of the other princesses) then making that happen is going to be important to you. With two kids under 10 years old as of right now I would be willing to bet that each of them would count character interactions as the highlights of their trips. To the previous poster I agree that the Studios "feels" saturated...and that is a product of the confined space and the relatively small midways. But, you have to concede that they handle the crowds well considering the size of their various theatres and the popularity of the shows.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yep, it does pain me to say it. When we were planning our up coming trip to DLP, I asked my kids what they wanted to do. My son said he wanted to ride Big Thunder and Pirates, and dine in the Silver Spur Steakhouse (I was so proud). My daughter said she wanted to ride Big Thunder and Crush Coaster, and dine with the Princesses (grrrrr). So yes, they can make a difference. I am not anti characters per se, it is when it is at the expense of real entertainment or attractions they make me want to go silly with a machete (jk)
Originally Posted By tashajilek "I am not anti characters per se, it is when it is at the expense of real entertainment or attractions they make me want to go silly with a machete (jk)" Please dont Dave lol.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper The princess meet and greet in Adventureland (which I was guessing is temporary) had a 60 minute wait at 8pm last week. I was maybe more devastated than my daugther that we would not be able to do it. Seeing them in the parade (and being in a very good spot so that she had some interaction with them) helped soothe her.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>(which I was guessing is temporary)<<< It is, remember, they are kicking out SWSA in the near future... ...Grumblegrumble
