Originally Posted By utahjosh Good point, jonvn. As a believer in an afterlife, it's important to me to keep an eternal perspective, but it's even more important to remember to love my neighbor, feed my family, and be a nice guy
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "I don't see anything in the one you posted that contradicts what I believe today. Joseph never gave a full transcript of everything that he heard the Lord and His Father say to him that day." I'm sure it doesn't. But you are the one that brought up the polydeistic views of Mormonism as an example of the eternal truth Mormonism restored. I am simply pointing this out as evidence that the "truths" that were restored evolved more than they were revealed. If that was such an important eternal truth, why did he leave it out of that lengthy first account?
Originally Posted By sherrytodd Regardless of eternity, I still have to believe in my existence and my purpose and it is not our nature to sit and stagnate. It is our nature to learn and grow. I can't see a point where I would say, "Gotta stop now. I'm getting too smart and might know as much as God."
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf I don't think eternity is a concept we can understand. It would be like trying to understand the size of outer space. We live on a planet of limited size (like our limited life span) and we are floating in infinite nothingness (eternity).
Originally Posted By utahjosh <If that was such an important eternal truth, why did he leave it out of that lengthy first account?> I don't know why he didn't write that part down in that account. But that doctrine about the Father and Son certainly was taught many times before 1833 (the date of the quote you posted.) The Book of Mormon, published in 1830, makes that point of doctrine clear. But I agree with you that God restored the truths that the LDS church belives "line upon line," a little here and there. It was in God's timing.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd It's not a concept we understand now. I have no doubt that we can understand it and more.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I that believing you can become a God is exactly why people would say you aren't Christians. I was always taught that believing in such a thing was a sin. As an adult, I rather believe that we all have good and evil inside of us, that that is what God and Satan really are...not really giant men up in the sky and in a pit underground. I don't think I am a God but I have the power to do good or hurt people (hey, I'm searching for a new victim. Anybody wanna turn in their resume?) I think we all have this ability and that is why prayer can be so powerful, not because there is a spirit in the sky who grants favors at will.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka And I do like the idea of there being different kinds of Heaven to allow for everyone's beliefs. I'm pretty sure that my idea of Heaven is NOTHING like Jerry Falwell's was or Pat Robertson's is. Frankly, if those are the type of people in Heaven...I really don't want to be there. Yuck.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "The Book of Mormon, published in 1830, makes that point of doctrine clear." Funny you mention that, as those sections were all doctored too - in 1837 to be exact. Coincidence?
Originally Posted By utahjosh Probably a coincidence. I'm reading the original 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon right now, and the doctrine of the Father and Son being two different beings is intact.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Eighth, i've read many many thing about the history of the LDS church, including things not written by members of the church. I've heard a lot of the things that you bring up, that make it seem that it can't be true. I've reconciled my thoughts, and I still have faith in the LDS church leadership today.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Can you give me examples of verses? I can give you some: 1 Nephi 11:18 - changed "mother of god" to "mother of THE SON of god" 1 Nephi 11:21 - changed "behold the lamb of god, yea, even the eternal father" to "behold the lamb of god, yea, THE SON OF the eternal father." 1 Nephi 11:32 - changed "he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God" to "he was taken by the people; yea THE SON OF the everlasting god" 1 Nephi 13:40 - changed "and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues and people, that the lamb of god is the eternal father and the savior of the world" to "and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues and people, that the lamb of god is THE SON OF the eternal father and the savior of the world" Those are more than simple edits.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster utahjosh: "Everyone freaked out that I said that some guy isn't a "valid" source for knowing the LDS beliefs. I'll stand by that." Yeah. I'm that guy. I spent 26 years of my life living as a devout Mormon. I graduated from seminary. I served a full two-year mission converting others to the church. I served in leadership positions before, during, and after my mission. I know what the church believes at least as much as you. Just because I don't believe it anymore does not render my opinion invalid.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, according to the OP the only "valid" sourse for knowing the LDS beliefs is the church website or a currently worshipful member. Given those ridiculous criteria, he's correct Churro. Out of curiosity, now that you know longer believe it how do you feel about having converted others to the church?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<That recipe sounds like it would make you weigh 500 pounds if you ate enough of it.>> So would eating every day at Mimi's
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Don't spend too much time thinking about eternal life. You should think about this one. >> Its very short You suffer a lot (some more than others)
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I can give you some: 1 Nephi 11:18 - changed "mother of god" to "mother of THE SON of god" 1 Nephi 11:21 - changed "behold the lamb of god, yea, even the eternal father" to "behold the lamb of god, yea, THE SON OF the eternal father." 1 Nephi 11:32 - changed "he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God" to "he was taken by the people; yea THE SON OF the everlasting god" 1 Nephi 13:40 - changed "and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues and people, that the lamb of god is the eternal father and the savior of the world" to "and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues and people, that the lamb of god is THE SON OF the eternal father and the savior of the world" Those are more than simple edits. >> Not having scripture in its original text makes editing translations quite problematic, IMO.
