Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Where do you think they would learn more, in a class room where they are modified by the group, or touring Japan where they will be subject to a lot of very new experiences covering currency conversions, culture, history, language, international affairs, and maybe a little fun at TDL and TDS?" Japan is one of the most conformist societies on Earth. They would learn a lot there
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 There is a BIG difference between planning a family vacation during the school year and working with the teacher to make sure that all work will be made up and lying to get out of work or school. As far as vacations from a job goes, most employers simply require notice and approval to take vacation time. The same goes if you plan a vacation for your child. As long as you teach them about responsibility and working hard, a vacation will not hurt them or somehow lead to be a slacker.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Did you know that in Japan kids go to school six days a week? The Summer break lasts for one or two months, not three. The world's average school year is 200 days. In the United States it's 180 days. In Japan it's 243. I can't imagine how you cannot plan vacations and plenty of family time around school in the United States.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Imagine the chaos if Obama's proposal to shorten Summer break and lengthen the school day is successful.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 How would it cause chaos? No one is talking about letting their children skip school at any given time for any little reason. We are all saying that sometimes it is not always possible to have every family vacation during the scheduled school breaks and that, when that becomes an issue, it is okay to take your child out of school for a short period of time as long as they make up all of their work. No one is saying it is okay to shirk responsibility. It is okay to take a vacation. In fact, one of the reasons there is such high stress, depression, and heart disease rates in this country is because people work to hard and do not take vacation. As long as you get the work done, it is a good thing to take time away. I do not think that is a horrible lesson for children to learn either.
Originally Posted By Wendy Pleakley School is important, but so is spending time together as a family. Not everyone can take vacation to coincide with their childrens' school breaks. I work in an office of 28 people. Four people can be away at a time. If someone has low seniority, they may not be able to get peak time off, i.e. Summer, Christmas, Spring Break. It's also more expensive to visit WDW for example, during peak times. I see no problem with parents pulling their kids from school if necesscary, so long as: -their kids won't miss any key exams or other important things -they're confident their kids are doing well enough to miss time, and will be able to catch up with what they miss -they don't expect the teacher to go out of their way to ensure the kids learn everything they miss. The teacher should be able to easily provide copies of assignments and reading lists, but anything above that should be the responsibility of the family
Originally Posted By DAR I'm going to the Riveria Maya for a wedding in a few weeks for my cousin's wedding. My sister who is a teacher is part of the group. It's actually a good week for her to go, that monday is MLK day so school is closed. And Friday there is what is known as a records day so there's no kids. She has three incentive days she earned for the school year and will be taking those days. Likewise I carried over six days of vacation, I don't work Monday's so I don't have to worry. But we have an understanding that she'll be back in school the following Monday and I'll return that Tuesday.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 ^^ What would have happened if your cousin's wedding was on another weekend?
Originally Posted By ecdc That's just the thing. We all have stuff come up. Most of us are in environments where people understand that and are willing to make arrangements - be it work, school, whatever. We talk to our employer, we talk to our teachers and we work it out. It's not rocket science. But then there's always those people who say that isn't good enough. Commitment and loyalty to school and work proves...something? As if arranging for some time off is akin to lack of commitment. It's absurd.
Originally Posted By ecdc BTW, most teachers don't have to worry about weddings because most of them take place in the summer, when the teacher is already off. It's pretty rich for teachers to lecture people on missing time when they get three months off. Yes, I understand they come up with lesson plans and don't spend all three months on a beach. But they're afforded a flexibility during that time that most of us can only dream of. My son's had a substitute for a portion of the year because his teacher is pregnant. Should that teacher be required to use birth control and time her pregnancy so she'll only be giving birth in the summertime? Stuff happens. It's best to be flexible and deal with the slackers on an individual basis instead of making some moral case out of missing work or school as if it's an indicator of laziness or lack of commitment.
Originally Posted By DAR <<^^ What would have happened if your cousin's wedding was on another weekend? >> Well I'm available to go the whole week, I imagine my sister would have come down a few days later. But again that's not the issue. The issue is when you're expected to come back you should be back.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<It's best to be flexible and deal with the slackers on an individual basis instead of making some moral case out of missing work or school as if it's an indicator of laziness or lack of commitment.>> The laziness and lack of commitment argument is how the conservative social darwinists justify treating the U.S. labor force like crap. It's all about benefitting the captains of industry, the corporate leaders, the rich and powerful, at the expense of everyone else. By painting the working class as slovenly filth with little to no capacity for discipline and a healthy work ethic, they're able to justify shipping jobs overseas where, supposedly, employees care more about their jobs and productivity than their personal lives. Which of course is nothing but a lie to excuse offshoring of labor so the wealthy can take more for themselves and sleep guilt-free at night. (Check out the productivity gains of American workers for the past two decades and see just how hard working and productive we truly are.) It's always been about making the working class feel like crap about desiring decent lives, so the workers will, in turn, give and give and give to their corporate masters, till they've got nothing left.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>The same goes if you plan a vacation for your child. <<< Sadly not in the UK :-(
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It's always been about making the working class feel like crap about desiring decent lives, so the workers will, in turn, give and give and give to their corporate masters, till they've got nothing left.<< And that's the real rub. I get that there's great employers and I get that there's lazy employees out there. But by and large, I don't trust business any farther than I can throw them. There are inspirational stories of employers doing the right thing in the economic recession, but they're peppered throughout a sea of appalling treatment and behavior, both towards employees and consumers. They are vampires; if you have anything left, they will take it and not look back.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Not everything is a conspiracy, skinnerbox. If you're a manager and you need the workplace firing on all cylinders, you cannot make concessions for every single little thing your employees want or else you'd never have a full crew. It's a give and take. Employers already give plenty of leeway for sick days, personal days and vacation days. What many people do is use up all of their sick days at the end of the year even though they are not sick. If the employer wants to let that fly, then great. I feel there's plenty of time for family for the average American household.
Originally Posted By ecdc BTW, skinner, you drop the "social darwinist" label frequently. Have you read something on it and can you point me in the direction of an interesting article or book about it?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I feel there's plenty of time for family for the average American household.<< Your feelings are wrong. Here's a breakdown of the average American 24 hour day: 8.7 Hours working 7.6 Hours sleeping 2.6 Hours Leisure and sports 1.7 Hours other 1.2 Hours caring for others 1.1 Hours eating and drinking 1.1 Hours household activities. <a href="http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/" target="_blank">http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/</a> Consider too, that many of us spend our eating time away from home because we're already at work for it. I promise you, I spend more time with my co-workers than I do with my children. I understand that career-driven people are a-ok with that. I'm not; I think it's the sign of a seriously warped, twisted culture that values money and materialism over relationships and family. And of course, it's defending to the hilt by the "family values" crowd.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I feel there's plenty of time for family for the average American household.<<< Really? I would disagree. Before I set up my company, I used to get 25 days a year leave, very little time really. Now, I have been lucky in that I have taken off 2 weeks at Summer, 1 week in Oct, 2 weeks at Christmas, have a week off in Feb, 2 at Easter and 1 in June, planning on a month off in the summer. To me, this means I can maximise my family time before the kids are grown and resent the time I did not spend with them (though to be fare, my average work day is 16 hours including commute, so this seems to balance it out)
