Originally Posted By oc_dean >>But, of course, this is something everyone has to learn for themselves.<< Yeah. That the Bible is one very questionable piece of literature. One of my personal favorites - <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A12&version=KJV">http://www.biblegateway.com/pa...sion=KJV</a> >>In the meantime, I would caution anyone who is an atheist or an agnostic to not make such bold, conclusive statements against the Bible or modern day Christians. << In the meantime, I would caution Easy Believers who so easily believe that book is word of who created them. And don’t care to question any of it. >> When you assume you know the truth about such things, you set yourself up for a mighty big fall.<< Or the weight lifted off one's shoulders. Part of how I’ve come to my own conclusion is not entirely through the Bible itself, but my own observation of us humans. I’ve noticed – * We human beings are prone to lie. * We tend to believe what others tell us. And carry whatever story down. (Not knowing it could be a lie) * When stories are passed down, how accurate or exaggerated have they become? (Try this – Sit in a circle with 50 people. Tell a story. Have the person next to you pass on to the next person. By the time it comes back to you, see if it’s still the same story!) * Within our brain is a very powerful tool – called the Imagination. Where we conjure up a lot. Even to the point where it’s even possible to blur the line between truth, and what our imaginations say. * Think con artists are only an invention of modern times. OHHH .. not possible people were liars before 20th century! For me ... I’m not one of those “over night ATHEISTS! Or Immediate Agnostics.” I’ve been taking the time to research this. I actually was one of those “easy believers who didn’t even bother to read the Bible” for years (Wouldn’t doubt that speaks for MILLIONS of others), till one day I just said to myself – “WAIT A MINUTE!” Started to actually read that thing, and do some research. You know, actually apply rational, critical, SOBERING thinking. The sort of thing all us human beings should do in everything we do within our daily lives!! And just beginning with the Qu’ran. (Oh, the horrifying stuff it says regarding gay people!) There’s so much to question. The Romans were excellent record keepers, yet so little to say about Jesus. That Josephus was able to collect such ACCURATE information, 50-60 years later? Why didn’t Jesus write anything down himself? Recent carbon dating to question the existence of Bethlehem and Nazareth at Jesus’ time. All the Old Testament stuff ... from God giving a pass on stoning, slavery, incest, etc. Ridiculous rules on shell fish, mixing fabrics, etc, etc, etc, etc. Loving God? Yeah .. so loving ... lets children born with diseases, and die before they reach the age of 10! Or an innocent person who gets killed in a cross fire between gangbangers, or caught in a war. Or someone who’s sight is taken away, or their hearing .. by unknown natural ways. Or my brother who was born with Muscular Dystrophy and dead by age 40, because his lungs finally gave out. Yeah .. we got a Loving God alright. It’s all bullshit! Whatever created us and the planets, stars, and galaxies, and other outerspace matter we have yet to understand, is something more complicated, and probably something more simple at the same time. And yes, I’m using my imagination to try to piece it all together. At least I admit I’m using my imagination. What about the rest of you? OH ... so you want to believe a book that states all sorts of weirdness like the thing about woman who shall remain silent next to a man? Come on! You really think “Your Inventor” actually says that, along with all sorts of other nonsense? I don’t.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The New Testament is very different from the Old, and in my mind supersedes it. The teachings of Jesus were very loving and concerned with social justice. The main problem with Christianity today is that so few Christians actually follow what was advocated by Christ. Do I believe in the literal truth of everything in the Bible? Of course not. But that does not mean it has no value.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "The New Testament is very different from the Old," So different that it's hard to believe that the OT god is the same as the NT god.
Originally Posted By oc_dean This is one guy's story that is a very, very good video to sit through: It's an hour and 20 minutes long. But worth it. Not worth it if you try to skim through it, or get distracted by other things. Please watch. If only .. but to make you think, and nothing else - <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5ZLuRYp8gk&feature=share">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...re=share</a>
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The main problem with Christianity today is that so few Christians actually follow what was advocated by Christ*** So true.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Christ...isn't that the one who said follow me or burn for eternity? But he loves us!! Yeah, swell guy. "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it, or because it has been handed down for generations, or because it is written in your religious books, or on the authority of your teachers or elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason, and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all, accept it and live up to it." " Doubt everything. Find your own light." -Buddha-
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Christ...isn't that the one who said follow me or burn for eternity? But he loves us!! Yeah, swell guy*** By and large, I think Jesus' cool, positive and useful teachings outweigh any negatives. He's certainly a breath of fresh air compared to his war-mongering, favorites-playing sociopath of a father!
Originally Posted By oc_dean I don't know who's taken the time to watch that video ... even if in increments spread out over several days .... but I highly recommend it to anyone. The thing that's nice about it .. It's not a heavily biased RANT. I'm sure many of you hate videos like that (can't blame you for that), and avoid such videos ... especially if your time is limited on such things. This guy covers his own story ... by covering one logical and rational point into another, in a calm and methodical manner. What he says makes a lot of sense. It's taken him time to come to the conclusion through lots of research, and life experience. It's not a video to callously write off. So, I would hope many of you would watch it. Not 10 minutes of it .. and think you've 'seen it all' .. but the whole thing. I thought this guy's story was rather interesting .. in the way he covers it.
Originally Posted By grannyGgranny My my Husband died for you to be a person to have faith in our god he died to kill a hittler German so you can have a good religion To past to your kids Always Don't Muck his sicrifice to give you your right to believe In Our god You dean be a respectful Person to thoses who died to give you your right
Originally Posted By grannyGgranny my husband Killed those german to give you Your Rights to be a religious man you must be I emplorre you at this greatest hours of this time
Originally Posted By TomSawyer <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://i.imgur.com/QtvnO.gif">http://i.imgur.com/QtvnO.gif</a>
Originally Posted By oc_dean Any particular thoughts you'd like to share Tikiduck on that video? I like how he breaks a lot of it down, not through some "outrages vent" .. but through a clear, & methodical approach. Makes one logical point after another.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Or .. here's a good question for you tikiduck: How would you best summarize it in one good sizable paragraph?
Originally Posted By Tikiduck I would say the guy did his homework, that's for sure. But being fairly well read myself on the subject, there was not a lot of information that I haven't come across before. His coming from a religious background, I admire the tenacity to learn the truth, and the courage to stand by his convictions, knowing his friends and family would object and ostracize him. But really, from the viewpoint of logic and reason, refuting religion is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I know all about logic and reason. I spent the last twenty years of my life as a database manger and reviewing and testing code written by my staff. Computers are incredibly stupid machines. All they can do is answer "yes" or "no" to a series of conditions based upon the criteria programmed into the system. But they can do it incredibly quickly. I spent those years figuring out what the "yes-no" questions would have to be, and designing databases needed to hold the information needed to make those decisions. It paid very well, but was totally soul-deadening. Logic and reason has nothing to do with music, nothing to do with art. Those are the things that interest me. If all of life becomes nothing other than logic and reason I would prefer not to live it.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Logic and reason aren't soul-deadening, RT - your job was. You weren't a scientist, but a technician. Logic and reason revealed that the universe is inconceivably huge, filled with more stars and galaxies and worlds than we ever dreamed possible before they came along. They revealed the invisible life in every drop of water, and led to the miracles of modern medicine that let kids with what were once fatal diseases live to love and laugh with the moms and dads another day. Logic and reason made it possible for soldiers in far away lands to see their newborn babies on a computer screen for the first time. It tells us that every tree, every blade of grass, every flower, is made from the carbon atoms that are pulled out of thin air and powered by sunlight. Logic and reason brought us the use of tools that gave us an evolutionary edge, the mastery of fire that led to every technological advancement past banging the rocks together, and the development of writing that spread knowledge by orders of magnitude across time and space. Logic and reason reveals a universe far larger, far more awe-inspiring, far more mysterious and far more knowable than anything ancient stories can offer. Logic and reason used the be the tools of the ancient religions that tried to explain the great questions based on the tools and information that they had available to them to measure reality. Reason reveals to you the glorious universe as it actually is, and not as it was defined by people who described how it was created before they knew the mechanism of pregnancy. And if you're a religious person it reveals a God of much more profound power and majesty than anything a neolithic priest could even begin to imagine.
