Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Now I have to stress 180 days out over FOOD!<< Yet another reason to take one's business elsewhere. Part of the fun of a vacation is the spontaneity. Kind of hard to do that when you have to make restaurant ressies 6 months in advance.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Skinnerbox...I agree with a lot of what you said. The only exception really is the transportation aspect. I happen to have just retired from public transportation (buses) and I know how complex a bus system is. It isn't like rail service where nothing interferes with your progress once you get moving. People load with massive degrees of variety in speed and efficiency and traffic, OMG traffic, can kill you. Most people don't take a moment to figure out what wheeled vehicles are up against. The is free (in a sense) and yet you would think that everyone was paying $100.00 per ride. You want direct service...but do you demand the same thing from an airline? Well, the same principle applies. You complain about higher cost to have a vacation yet you argue that they should spend more and more money on transportation to make your life simpler. More and more service means higher and higher costs and guess where who ends up paying for that. Transportation is not really what you are thinking you are paying for, but it is in the cost of doing business. You went for the entertainment not the ride to it. The system that they have is really very well run (and believe me I know the difference), but it isn't perfect, it never will be because there are too many human variables inherently attached to it. And you do have alternatives, the most efficient is having your own transportation. What you cannot have is your own theme park unless you are extremely wealthy. So to keep costs down do you sacrifice the parks and invest millions in a system that is quite sufficient and well run to make it "handier" for a few? Not if your a business man that has to balance the budget and keep everyone happy at the same time. That little detail will fall by the wayside, as it should.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<So to keep costs down do you sacrifice the parks and invest millions in a system that is quite sufficient and well run to make it "handier" for a few?>> Why would the parks have to suffer to add new transportation options to WDW? The service would mostly be used by hotel guests, who are already paying premium rates for a less than premium experience by the way, so why not charge them? As they expand the monorails, or whatever they choose, why not add a "transportation tax" or whatever to the hotels serviced by that system? It probably wouldn't be enough to cover the whole thing, but frankly, this is something that WDW really, really needs - and is an investment that Disney just needs to bite the bullet and make.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Yet another reason to take one's business elsewhere. Part of the fun of a vacation is the spontaneity. << Yep. Having every minute planned makes it more like a job than a vacation.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Why would the parks have to suffer to add new transportation options to WDW? The service would mostly be used by hotel guests, who are already paying premium rates for a less than premium experience by the way, so why not charge them? As they expand the monorails, or whatever they choose, why not add a "transportation tax" or whatever to the hotels serviced by that system? It probably wouldn't be enough to cover the whole thing, but frankly, this is something that WDW really, really needs - and is an investment that Disney just needs to bite the bullet and make.>> Agreed. Goofyernmost... there was a time back in the day when you didn't have to share your resort's bus line with multiple resorts. And you didn't have to wait more than 15 min for a bus to actually show up at your stop. If I'm staying at a deluxe resort like Wilderness Lodge, I shouldn't have to wait more than 15 min for a bus to MK. Nor should I be further delayed by side trips to the Poly and Grand FL on my way to the park. But that's what Disney expects from their resort guests, for average rooms with a few nice amenities that are exorbitantly higher in price than other deluxe resorts off property. When I visit WDW, which hasn't happened in over three years, I rent a car at the airport and stay off-property. Even with navigating through traffic from the other side of I-4, I can make better time in my rental car from the hotel to the parking lot of any Disney park, than I can from taking a Disney bus from an on-property resort. And if I wish to leave the park mid-day when the buses don't run as frequently, I just hop in the car and go. No long waits just for the bus to show up so I can return to my hotel for an afternoon rest. WDW transportation simply sucks for what Disney charges to stay on property. No excuse whatsoever.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Yet another reason to take one's business elsewhere. Part of the fun of a vacation is the spontaneity. Kind of hard to do that when you have to make restaurant ressies 6 months in advance. <<< That's not an option when it's a MISSION to get FPs for Space Mountain, meet Mickey, and make a fantastic memory in Fantasyland when we've had it drilled into our heads that THESE THINGS MUST BE DONE IN DISNEY TO HAVE A GOOD TIME. And part of that blame isn't just on Disney's it's society. We want to be told what to do. ...Well, I don't...
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<...Well, I don't...>> Ditto. I can't plan vacations six months in advance, nor can many professionals these days, especially if you're working as a contractor and/or on a project-by-project basis. You take time off between projects, which rarely finish on time. And even if I could book my vacation six months in advance, I hate the notion of having to plan out the daily itineraries at that time, six months before the trip, simply to book my restaurant reservations. That's crap. Like others here, I thoroughly enjoy the serendipity approach to theme park exploration. Go with the flow, enjoy the moment. Not, "It's Tuesday, so this must be EPCOT" kind of commando behavior. That eliminates 90% of the fun of going to WDW in the first place.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Ditto. I can't plan vacations six months in advance, nor can many professionals these days, especially if you're working as a contractor and/or on a project-by-project basis. You take time off between projects, which rarely finish on time. And even if I could book my vacation six months in advance, I hate the notion of having to plan out the daily itineraries at that time, six months before the trip, simply to book my restaurant reservations. That's crap. Like others here, I thoroughly enjoy the serendipity approach to theme park exploration. Go with the flow, enjoy the moment. Not, "It's Tuesday, so this must be EPCOT" kind of commando behavior. That eliminates 90% of the fun of going to WDW in the first place<<<< The only reason I can plan out WHEN my trips will be is because I know my school schedule. But that, and planning out what days are in what parks, are about the only planning I do, and that's just to maximize park hours for EMH and the like. But the rest? A total headache. I tried it once... made me miserable. Never doing that again. And as for an actual plan of action in the parks? Again, not needed... Go with the flow, do what we always do, and just general "touring" is what makes is enjoyable. I think the only "planned" FP we get is for Soarin'. Th rest? It's really not needed.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>But that, and planning out what days are in what parks, are about the only planning I do, and that's just to maximize park hours for EMH and the like. But the rest? A total headache. I tried it once... made me miserable. Never doing that again. And as for an actual plan of action in the parks? Again, not needed... Go with the flow, do what we always do, and just general "touring" is what makes is enjoyable. I think the only "planned" FP we get is for Soarin'. Th rest? It's really not needed.<<< We certainly agree on that. I never plan anything, in fact I don't even know what park, if any, I'm going to until after I get up that morning. If I can get a workable FP for some rides, I will take advantage of that, but for others, like Toy Story, I don't bother. I've never experienced Toy Story to this day but you know what? I am still able to fall asleep at night, it isn't eating away at me. >>>why not add a "transportation tax" or whatever to the hotels serviced by that system? It probably wouldn't be enough to cover the whole thing, but frankly, this is something that WDW really, really needs - and is an investment that Disney just needs to bite the bullet and make.<<< Ok, assuming that guests are willing to take that extra hit let's look at something else that should be near and dear to everyone at this time in history. Can you honestly tell me that running, quick guess here, maybe 20 more buses everyday for somewhere in the range of 18 to 20 hours a day, burning up literally thousands of gallons of diesel fuel and spewing emissions in the air is a good trade off so that you can get to a theme park 10 minutes sooner? I don't! There is way more than just money involved here.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Can you honestly tell me that running, quick guess here, maybe 20 more buses everyday for somewhere in the range of 18 to 20 hours a day, burning up literally thousands of gallons of diesel fuel and spewing emissions in the air is a good trade off so that you can get to a theme park 10 minutes sooner?>> Perhaps I should have made it clear, but I think Disney needs to ditch the buses entirely - they're an eyesore as well as a nuisance, and Disney needs to replace them with something more efficient, more environmentally friendly, more “magical”, and something that doesn’t add to traffic on Disney’s roadways. I’d like more monorails, but I understand that there might actually be better solutions now – maybe something more futuristic?
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb I think, please correct me if I am wrong, that people looking for more/better WDW transportation are thinking more along the lines of monorails and a People Mover system, not more busses. I'd like to see more cleaner and greener options, like a walking slash bike path system between parks and resorts.
Originally Posted By avimagine ^^^ You mean like the bike share programs that some major cities are investing in. Where patrons can "borrow" a bike (I guess some would be motorized electric) and then just park it at the next destination? Also in Europe and Asia they have "light/mid buses" smaller and lighter then ours so they require less fuel to run. Dennis/Toyota etc make them. <a href="http://www.changeeverything.ca/vancity_bike_share" target="_blank">http://www.changeeverything.ca...ke_share</a> Or couldn't they also implement Light Rail Transit, it would be cheaper (less magical) then Monorail <a href="http://bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/light-rail-vehicles/flexity-2-tram-?docID=0901260d800a0a9b" target="_blank">http://bombardier.com/en/trans...800a0a9b</a> They could do the Mickey Mouse windows like in Tokyo.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>We certainly agree on that. I never plan anything, in fact I don't even know what park, if any, I'm going to until after I get up that morning. If I can get a workable FP for some rides, I will take advantage of that, but for others, like Toy Story, I don't bother. I've never experienced Toy Story to this day but you know what? I am still able to fall asleep at night, it isn't eating away at me.<<< Nah, I gotta plan out my days, seeing we are usually limited to two or three. And that basically means in what order MK and EPCOT (and maybe DHS) are going in. And I'd recommend seeing TSMM... ONCE. It's fun, but nothing special. I didn't bother riding this past visit.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Disney needs to replace them with something more efficient, more environmentally friendly, more “magical”, and something that doesn’t add to traffic on Disney’s roadways. I’d like more monorails, but I understand that there might actually be better solutions now – maybe something more futuristic?<<< >>>I think, please correct me if I am wrong, that people looking for more/better WDW transportation are thinking more along the lines of monorails and a People Mover system, not more busses. I'd like to see more cleaner and greener options, like a walking slash bike path system between parks and resorts.<<< I agree that would be wonderful...now lets get back to our home planet cause this isn't going to happen. Way to much expense to give a free ride to a group of grumpy people. As long as it continues to work, even marginally, the current system is here to stay. They might alter somethings and make certain areas more efficient but to do an overall change like that, sadly, will not be in any of our lifetimes.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The is free (in a sense) and yet you would think that everyone was paying $100.00 per ride. You want direct service...but do you demand the same thing from an airline? Well, the same principle applies. You complain about higher cost to have a vacation yet you argue that they should spend more and more money on transportation to make your life simpler. More and more service means higher and higher costs and guess where who ends up paying for that*** How many people using that transportation have purchased lengthy multi-day park tickets for hundreds of dollars? How many are buying overpriced food and trinkets in the parks? How many paid exorbitant fees for parking in order to board that magical bus system? And, of course, how many paid through the nose for a glorified motel room? The Disney transportation system is far from free. FAR from it. If it were a problem for Disney (and duh, it's not...they want to herd people around so they can by more trinkets and spring for more park days and stay longer because they love the "convenience" of not having to drive), Disney would certainly charge for it. In fact, they used to charge for the monorail unless you were a Magic Kingdom customer (I know this because in 1990 I took a day trip to Epcot and felt like riding the monorail over to the MK resorts and had to pay for a ticket, I remember it distinctly). I'd rather they build more monorails and other more efficient systems, and charge for them. They charge for the monorail in Tokyo, and it's a wonderful, state-of-the-art system that gets the customers around the resort within minutes without delay.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Can you honestly tell me that running, quick guess here, maybe 20 more buses everyday for somewhere in the range of 18 to 20 hours a day, burning up literally thousands of gallons of diesel fuel and spewing emissions in the air is a good trade off so that you can get to a theme park 10 minutes sooner? I don't!*** Nor I. But a mean, green, fully fleshed out monorail machine (at LEAST to the four parks, come on guys!), would mean LESS busses and less filthy emissions. Right? (and beyond the parks, how about a neat peoplemover system to the many resorts and other areas...I'd pay $1 a ride to enjoy THAT! or, something else whimsical and fun and Disney-like!?) Busses will always have their place, but they should be more of a supplement than a major component.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***now lets get back to our home planet cause this isn't going to happen. Way to much expense to give a free ride to a group of grumpy people*** It worked before. It was implemented just 10 years ago at Tokyo Disneyland, in fact. No free ride...works for me (and for those who don't want to pay, THAT'S what the supplemental busses can be used for, but they should be much less convenient than the "main routes", thus everyone gets to chose their price point).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I really want to comment on what others have posted on this great spirited thread, but first I just want to comment on the whole point from the OP. My daddy is the guy who got me hooked on Disney. He took me to FLA as a bright-eyed young child and I was just wowed with Disney World ... amazed for a boy from Boston that such a green, lush paradise with monorails soaring thru futuristic hotels, mansions with 999 happy haunts residing outside a river with sternwheelers and keel boats and canoes around an island I could pretend I was Tom or Huck Finn (and utter racial epithets to my heart's content -- THIS IS A TOPICAL JOKE!), soar to Neverland like Peter Pan, have dinner in a fairtale castle, take a voyage with plundering pirates and end the night with a train ride that seemed to go on forever and ever. It was said Spirited Dad who bought my first WDW AP (and many more) at EPCOT Center's opening, an event that made me a fanboi (now followed by 'royalty') for life. And sadly, it was the same Dad who noticed that WDW was getting stale when he gave up his AP in the late 1990s. It was that Dad who has returned plenty since (a few seasonal passes, a lot of comps thanks to wonderful Spirits!) but always seems to notice that things aren't what they were. I never thought the elder Spirit was that critical, but maybe I've taught him or maybe he just sees the change. He was the one who used to talk about the pavement 'being clean enough to eat off of' and now can often be seen wiping off his silverware at full serve locations or cleaning a table with napkins at quick serves. So ... skinner is quite right, this ain't my daddy's Disney. And it has nothing at all to do with Walt. The man was dead before I ever lived. I grew up with a Disney run by Ron Miller, Card Walker, Donn Tatum ... followed by Michael Eisner and Frank Wells. And my father never went to DL or WDW until he took me to WDW on Christmas Day 1974. So, I am not interested in Walt's Disney, beyond being fascinated by what the man created (including an organization that arguably created more after he died than before). But I would like my Daddy's Disney back. The one that hooked me in the 70s, 80s and 90s. And it can exist ... I've seen it in Anaheim (though not to what it once was there either) and Paris and on the DCL ... and definitely in Tokyo. Now, do I think that Disney will ever exist again at say WDW? Anything is possible ... but it won't happen with Bob Iger running Disney. It just won't. At day's end, he's just a manager. A big one, but that's it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Magic Kingdom did get stale for me over the past 10-15 years but I've visited so often during that time I'm not sure I have a fair perspective on that. To someone who is visiting for the first time I have to believe it is still a sensory filling experience.>> I think that's a fair perspective, wahoo. If someone has never had any beef beyond Burger King, then one can understand if they think the Whopper is the best-tasting quality beef out there. They simply lack the experience and perspective. I understand that some wide-eyed tourist on their first, second or third WDW visit might be so wowed they don't notice the awful show quality of many MK attractions or the repetitive, low quality entertainment or when the park isn't clean. But guess what? It doesn't change the facts. I don't want to offend anyone (OK, I really don't care whether I do or not because anyone offended by a post on a Disney message board likely needs a psych evaluation stat), but ignorance is no excuse for much of anything ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It's a pretty weak argument to say "Walt Disney is dead, so let's not care about what he stood for", isn't it?>> Yes, it is. VERY. VERY. WEAK.
