Originally Posted By plpeters70 Here's what I just don't get - why would anyone want to oppose ANY inititives that are for getting us off carbon and cleaning up the environment? Wouldn't doing those things benifit almost everyone in the long run?? Even if you don't believe that Global Warming is real, our energy problems are very, very real - and getting worse by the day. How long will it be before you're paying 5 dollars a gallon for gas, and the price of heating/cooling your home doubles, or triples? And we haven't even started to talk about the cost of all the lives that are being wasted in the Middle East all so that we can maintain our oil-guzzling lifestyles. Whether Global Warming is real or not, the fact remains that we NEED to get off non-renewable forms of energy. It may be a little painful for us up front, but to not do it soon means leaving all of that pain and suffering to our children. And believe me, whether the pain comes from global climate changes, or just the fact that we eventually run out of fossil fuels with no ready replacement, we're still condeming our children to deal with our mess. And all because we're too worried about politics and maintaining our own comfort to worry about the future of our world.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Here's what I just don't get - why would anyone want to oppose ANY inititives that are for getting us off carbon and cleaning up the environment? Wouldn't doing those things benifit almost everyone in the long run?? >> That is exactly the point. People that oppose these measures stand to lose a substantial amount of money if they are enacted. I personally do not believe we can reverse the damage but we can at least slow it down a bit.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I am still not sure what to believe about Global Warming yet, either. I don't argue that it's not happening, but I'm not convinced on the reasons and possible solutions and if the solutions are necessary. The thing about modern science is that we are always learning more. The Kilamanjaro thing is a perfect example. 2 years ago, Gore and others would have sworn on their lives that Global Warming was causing the snow to melt. It was a fact to them. And people who didn't believe it were crazy right-winged nuts. How many other "proved facts" will change as we continue to learn?
Originally Posted By utahjosh AMEN to plpeters70's post #21. Except I wouldn't support ANY initiave. Just the good ones.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <But do we have an accurate measure of earth's temperature that is not disproportionately influenced by the urban heat island effect? I don't think so.> The IPCC thinks we do.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Gore and others would have sworn on their lives" No, that's not how it works. It's what our current knowledge is, and it is constantly subject to change. "How many other "proved facts" will change as we continue to learn? " There is no such thing as a proof outside of mathematics. Everything is subject to review and change. That is how science works. It is not dogma.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'm glad we share that view, jonvn. However, I'm pretty sure Gore's movie didn't say "Here are some theories that are subject to review and change." He is saying "Here are the facts, and everyone needs to follow my solutions or we are in trouble."
Originally Posted By jonvn "I'm pretty sure Gore's movie didn't say " They are the facts as best we know them to be. That is all we can ever be able to present. Have you seen the movie?
Originally Posted By utahjosh Nope. Someday I might get around to it, To tell you the truth it sounds boring, depressing, and presents some nice theories.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut well Al Gore isnt known for his uplifting speaches or lectures. So of course its boring. I do agree that it put out the facts, as they knew them at the time. However in this area the facts seem to change daily so while it has some good points, the facts are always going to be argued because they are always changing.
Originally Posted By jonvn Actually, it's interesting and it's not theories. It's what we know. Things don't really change daily. The basic brunt of the entire thing is still the same. As time goes on, this is just becoming more and more confirmed. It's really not a theory. It's what is actually happening, as far as we know. And it's something we can do something about. But if people just sit on their hands, then it's going to be a far greater disaster than it may be.
Originally Posted By friendofdd I've not seen the movie either, but I did, and you can, google his slide show which led to the movie.
Originally Posted By jonvn I didn't find it. Just go rent the movie. If you don't like it, I'll mail you the two bucks it cost you.
Originally Posted By friendofdd I found several and picked this one at random. <a href="http://climatechangeaction.blogspot.com/2006/04/video-of-week-al-gore-inconvenient_28.html" target="_blank">http://climatechangeaction.blo gspot.com/2006/04/video-of-week-al-gore-inconvenient_28.html</a>
