Originally Posted By DAR It's nice to know that as usual this topic turns into another religion bashing fest.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<If that doesn't work for the cripples and likewise nonfunctional types, screw them. They don't deserve marriage any more than the fags do, right?! Damn the whole lot to hell.>> You cannot hold the entire church responsible for the actions of a specific priest. Yes, in the Vatican's back yard I'm sure they are pretty "by the book". But I was confirmed into the Catholic religion and both my wife and I joined a Catholic church even though we both were divorced. My previous marriage had been annulled (by my ex-wife) but my proposed wife’s had not. She also had no interest in getting one. She had a three year old son and she felt that claiming her marriage was not a sacramental marriage would be denying the legitimacy of her son. So we found a church with a priest that allowed us in anyway. He said the my wife could make a "decision of conscience"... that if after prayerful reflection she felt that her divorce and remarriage would be acceptable in the eyes of God that he had no problem with confirming me and letting us join the church. My wife actually would have had easy grounds for an annulment. When she was pregnant with her son her husband demanded that she have an abortion and moved out when she refused. Since the Church demands that a married couple accept children, she would have had an easy out. But as I said before, my wife on principal refused to claim that her prior marriage was not a sacramental marriage. She can be rather stubborn like that when she is convinced she is right. It actually has made for a pretty peaceful marriage. I discovered within the first few years that no matter how I carried on and argued, if my wife was convinced of the correctness of her position, once I started arguing she would calmly and quietly state that she was not going to change her mind and walked away. You know how they say with babies that when you are trying to get them to go to sleep in their crib you should just walk out and ignore their cries? That pretty soon they will discover the futility of their crying and shut up and go to sleep? Well, I guess it works pretty much the same way with husbands. LOL Hmmm… I seem to have wandered off topic. Back to religion bashing!!
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<If that doesn't work for the cripples and likewise nonfunctional types, screw them. Damn the whole lot to hell.>> It depends on what your definition of marriage is. Last time I checked the RCC wasn't lobbying the gov't to not allow civil marriages for couples like this, or even to ban civil remarriage after divorce. If you don't like Catholic rules, then don't be Catholic.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<She had a three year old son and she felt that claiming her marriage was not a sacramental marriage would be denying the legitimacy of her son.>> Believe it or not, "legitimacy" is not a church issue. Baptismal certicates do not have a "legitimate birth" checkbox on them. This is one of those stereotypes. Much like the Priest asking the assembly if anyone has an objection to this marriage, speak now or hold your peace. It isn't done. But it makes for good cinema.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<It's nice to know that as usual this topic turns into another religion bashing fest. >> Indeed. Its also interesting to see who can get away with damning a large group of people (which includes me) to hell. I can only imagine that if I had spewed that kind of hatred towards a more protected group that a moderator would hacve taken me to the toolshed by now.
Originally Posted By X-san ***So we found a church with a priest that allowed us in anyway. He said the my wife could make a "decision of conscience"... that if after prayerful reflection she felt that her divorce and remarriage would be acceptable in the eyes of God that he had no problem with confirming me and letting us join the church.*** While that IS very cool of him, I'm guessing that priest didn't really have the authority to do that and would've gotten into trouble if caught (just guessing here, I really don't know how much authority the priests have to do what they want in their churches).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Believe it or not, "legitimacy" is not a church issue. Baptismal certicates do not have a "legitimate birth" checkbox on them.>> My wife didn't care about how the church would have viewed it. It was more how she emotionally would have felt about it. <<While that IS very cool of him, I'm guessing that priest didn't really have the authority to do that and would've gotten into trouble if caught (just guessing here, I really don't know how much authority the priests have to do what they want in their churches).>> As in many professions he was tolerated because he was successful. He founded a parish that became one of the largest, most successful and wealthiest in the state, if not the midwest. So even though our church was often referred to as that "almost Catholic Church" the hierarchy put up with him. Of course when he retired about 5 years ago the bishop decided to regain control and put a real hard-line guy in as the new pastor. About 25% of the members left the church; we were among them.
