Originally Posted By Labuda OMG, I am soooooo sorry, ecdc. But, this puts you firmly in my heroes category if you weren't already there! A thousand pardons for mistaking your post for one by skinnerbox. I am truly sorry.
Originally Posted By Labuda ...and now I just realized you were quoting Maher. Good grief, I should get to sleep. LOL
Originally Posted By Labuda "The only people left calling themselves republican are either shameless or ignorant. Or both. There's just no other explanation." Exactly why it pains me the way it does to know that a dear friend of mine is a Republican. I have great love for this man, but also pity him since obviously there's something wrong with him if he's a Republican and would vote for Palin over "any Democrat." And yes, that's a quote... something he actually told me once. My jaw dropped.
Originally Posted By ecdc Thanks Labuda, but all credit to Bill Maher I love Maher...so long as he doesn't start talking about health and medicine (aye yai yai!)
Originally Posted By Donny Let me start out by saying that I agree with the First Lady in that public schools should be a place for kids to learn and get a balanced meal,I do feel Palin is on the wrong side of the issue in this singular case but I am extremely proud to be a Republican and it seems independents are crossing the political boarder as well as evident by a sweeping return to conservative values all over the united states.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Let me start out by saying that I agree with the First Lady in that public schools should be a place for kids to learn and get a balanced meal,I do feel Palin is on the wrong side of the issue in this singular case*** Glad to hear an actual contrarian position from a right winger on SOMETHING...much appreciated, dude. And I agree with you, too! ***but I am extremely proud to be a Republican*** Why? ***and it seems independents are crossing the political boarder as well as evident by a sweeping return to conservative values all over the united states*** What makes you say that? Because of the elections in 2010? Haven't you noticed there have been protests and angry sentiment since then? I think the independents swing with the winds, but when real stuff starts going down, they will protest and holler and act indignant even though it was they (it's always them, really) who elected the bums in the first place. Why did Wisconsin elect a Governor they would turn around and protest only months later? Why were they so stupid in the first place? He never lied, he's doing exactly what he promised when they elected him! We're going to see much more of this throughout the country over the next two years. It will be interesting, but DEFINITELY not as cut-and-dried as you seem to think. Most voters never expected the ones they chose to do *anything*, never mind extremist right wing values stuff! You're in a minority, as are liberals, the ones in the middle don't have a clue what they want, they just know to vote the other way when they're pissed off. Great system.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >independents are crossing the political boarder as well as evident by a sweeping return to conservative values all over the united states.< Knee-jerk reaction =/= Return to conservative values
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Why did Wisconsin elect a Governor they would turn around and protest only months later?<< Because, like most of the nation, many of them don't bother to vote in non-presidential elections. Which is crazy, and it's largely why the GOP did so well in November. If one side gets lazy, the other side uses that to their advantage. I don't understand why people don't bother to vote. You see in other countries how they have revolutions for the right to vote. But here in America, so many people don't bother with it. Then, they wind up outraged, as seen in Wisconsin.
Originally Posted By Donny "Mr.X asked ***but I am extremely proud to be a Republican*** Why?" 1. I am for the most part a believer in less government 2. I am proud to see conservatives stand for freedom of choice (now if we could get them on the band wagon on gay marriage and polygamy it would be even better.) 3.I like the conituing stand conservatives are taking to reform education for the better of students and not for the unions. and I could go on on andnand on as for the election in 2010 multiple elections
Originally Posted By fkurucz " I am extremely proud to be a Republican" It was when it finally dawned on me that the GOP is waging a war on the middle class (it was around 2001-2002) that I finally wised up and became an independent.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>1. I am for the most part a believer in less government<< I used to believe that until I realized that its only "less gov't" when it comes to anti poverty programs. >>2. I am proud to see conservatives stand for freedom of choice (now if we could get them on the band wagon on gay marriage and polygamy it would be even better.)<< They'd lose the all important Protestant Fundamentalist vote if they did that. >>3.I like the conituing stand conservatives are taking to reform education for the better of students and not for the unions.<< Yeah, all those 45K per year teachers are really making bank. I used to believe that public schools are crap, but when my kids started attending the local public high school I learned that was hogwash. Sure the kids at the parrochial school they attended had high test scores, they all came from upper middle class families. But my kids continued to excel in high school. Is what happens when you have above average IQs.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<3.I like the conituing stand conservatives are taking to reform education for the better of students and not for the unions.>> Unions are not evil, Donny. You're buying into the corporate media talking points being sold to Americans by their sock puppet pundits like Beck and Limbaugh. Unions are responsible for giving you the workplace benefits and protections you've enjoyed since the first day of your employment. The 8 hr workday and 40 hr work week? Thank the unions. Paid sick days and paid holidays, like Christmas and Thanksgiving and Easter? Thank the unions. Affordable health care where half your paycheck doesn't go to insurance premiums? Thank the unions. Having your wages actually increase instead of stagnate or decrease, especially during times of inflation? Thank the unions. You hate and despise unions because you believe they're getting rich while the private sector continues to slide closer to poverty. But that's simply not true! Check out the facts, Donny. They're easy to find in a Google search. Private sector workers on average across the country earn MORE than public sector workers doing comparable jobs. Fact. The reduction in pay rate for public workers is compensation for the pension contribution. Private sector employees work at a higher pay rate because they're contributing to their own retirement plan with that additional pay. What bothers me about your attitudes towards the teachers unions is that you yourself are or have been a unionized firefighter, who makes far more in salary than teachers. What do you think would happen to your salary and benefits, Donny, if your state government took away your union's right to collectively bargain? What do you think would happen to your job without union protection? Do you want to work for a private company which contracts its services to local municipalities without any wage protections, like a janitorial service which cleans office buildings at midnight with undocumented workers? Without your firefighters union, your job would offer far less pay and benefits. Guaranteed. I highly doubt you would want to lose your union protection and be at the mercy of a private company which views labor as disposable and expendable. But you have no trouble throwing teachers to the private sector wolves and forcing them to deal with "free market forces" in order to have a decent standard of living where they can afford to go to college and take on huge debts from student loans in order to become a teacher in the first place. If you lower pay and benefits for teachers even further, no one will enter the profession as aging teachers continue to retire. No one will be able to afford to become a teacher, without a minimum level of pay and benefits to give them a roof over their heads and put food on the table, AFTER they make their monthly student loan payment, which cannot be dismissed through bankruptcy. Student loans are exempt from bankruptcy protection, and must be paid back. Fact is, the Republicans want to abolish public education, and this is how they're trying to do it. That's the ultimate goal, Donny. The Republican governors and legislators are trying to weaken the teachers union by removing collective bargaining. Then once the union has no bargaining power, the pay and benefits will evaporate. Once that happens, no high school graduate will consider taking on massive student loan debt for five years of college for a job that marginally pays better than Starbucks. Public education will slowly but surely wither on the vine. Without public education, only the upper middle class and wealthy will be able to afford private schools. States do not have enough funds to give vouchers to all parents for their kids to completely cover the costs of private school tuition. Over half of the children in this country won't be able to attend school without financial assistance. The country will become even further illiterate than it already is, which is music to the ears of the GOP, since they need and depend upon those illiterate voters to manipulate into voting against their own self-interests and continue to support the corporate control of our so-called democracy. You've been a card-carrying firefighter, Donny. You should be supporting your union brothers and sisters in the non-safety service unions, like teachers and nurses, instead of tearing them down. Shame on you.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 Wow, Skinnerbox! Awesome post! I will only add this: rewriting history and refusing to teach science, as many conservative-run states have done and are doing, is not education reform. It is advocating and promoting ignorance. Also Donny, thanks for having the common sense to admit that advocating for healthy eating is not a bad thing- I wish Palin and Limbaugh, among others, could set political fighting aside and admit that not everything is a controversial issue.
Originally Posted By Oldschool Disney One union in Wisconsin even gave kids a mini vacation last week.
Originally Posted By Oldschool Disney Public education isn't going anywhere either, that's some boogeyman story.
Originally Posted By Oldschool Disney Sorry don't mean to derail we're talking about Limbaugh being fat.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Public education isn't going anywhere either, that's some boogeyman story." I've met plenty of people who would be more than happy to abolish it. What I think would happen is as skinnerbox said there would be vouchers that wouldn't cover the tuition at "good" schools. What the masses would get would be for profit "McSchools" instead, which would be far inferior to the average contemporary public school.
