Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance SPP, do you think the payments on the school loans limit your quality of life, and make it where you can't afford everything you'd normally be able to with your salary? Just curious. I'm wondering what will be the best coarse of action to pay for my kids college.
Originally Posted By mawnck I ain't SPP, but I can tell you that I would gladly give up the education I received if I could also ditch my current student loan burden. My quality of life is *considerably* lower because of it. I can't make the career changes that I really want solely because I can't afford the cut in pay they would require. This is not to blame anyone but myself. My graduate school adventure was a spectacularly dumb idea that I'll be paying for for another 15 years or so. I'm just saying that I wish someone had warned me about the perils of student loan debt beforehand. You're stuck with it, you know. It can't be discharged in bankruptcy. (Thanks a heap, Congress.) Also keep in mind that college tuition has been increasing much faster than inflation (because student loans are so easy to get, which is because you can't discharge them in bankruptcy - see how that works?). At this point, there are several degrees that just ain't worth it anymore. I'd advise sticking with state colleges (if they still exist when the time comes) and don't allow your kids to take on student loan debt that they can't handle NOW at their present level of education.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 I will do everything I can to pay for my kids' educations but if they want to go to a really expensive, private school the reality is that they will either have to get scholarships, student loans, or both to help pay for it. I just looked up the tuition rates for Harvard, for example. Full time tuition for the 2010/11 school year is $36,992 and the estimated total cost (tuition/books/room and board/misc costs) is $61,172. There is no way my husband and I could pay that all ourselves, no matter how much I wish I could. We would cover as much as possible, but if the kids want to go to a school like that, they will have a lot of debt when they get out.
Originally Posted By gadzuux You might be surprised at the amount of MBAs that are unemployed and looking for a job. You can be unemployed for free - you don't need to build up a mountain of debt getting a sheepskin that's ultimately useless anyway.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >At this point, there are several degrees that just ain't worth it anymore< The entire College of Liberal Arts
Originally Posted By hopemax DH and I were fortunate to graduate with no student loans. We went to a state school. I am an only child and he only has 1 sister, 5 years younger, and both of our parents managed to pay year by year, without having any savings before we started. At the time, tuition was about $1100 per quarter. Our books were expensive (engineering), but we had the same major so we only bought one set between us. DH lived with his Grandpa, so he had minimal boarding costs, but my parents paid. However, DH's best friend...I don't know what she is going to do. She "paid her own way so no one could tell her what to do," ie she has a mountain of student loans. She got her Associate's degree from a private school in Missouri, did part of one year at one of our Washington state schools, but decided it was too big. So she got her BA from a different expensive private school. Her degree is in Theater. Then she knew you couldn't do anything with a Theater degree, so she went to get her Masters in theater at UNLV. She got a job stage managing for O but after completing her degree decided that "this life maybe isn't what she wants." So she went BACK to UNLV to get her teaching certificate. Of course, now there are no teaching jobs, so she is still working at O, and substitute teaching. And in debt up to her eyeballs. Parents and students need to be realistic about what type of job and what type of salary are going to be available after graduating. And really, don't go halfway around the country for an Associates Degree, your local school will be fine.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "**$61,172** That's outrageous." Heck, even at no name private schools the bill can run $40,000 a year. How much does it cost to attend Tokyo University?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>My graduate school adventure was a spectacularly dumb idea that I'll be paying for for another 15 years or so.<< You got an MFA in Screenwriting too!?!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox My original undergrad program in the late eighties was playwriting/screenwriting, sort of a hybrid degree at SFSU that the Creative Writing department and August Coppola (Nick Cage's dad), then Dean of Creative Arts, helped me put together. But cooler heads prevailed (mostly my engineer father) and convinced me to major in something more mainstream, that I could leverage into a corporate job if need be. So I switched to Speech Communication with an emphasis on childhood communication. Best advice I ever received and actually took to heart.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***How much does it cost to attend Tokyo University?*** I dunno, I'll ask around. I believe it's a heck of a lot less than $40,000 but I'm not certain of that.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >Hey, now.< I'm not trying to be mean. Heck, I'm a liberal arts major (History) I just understand the fact that as far as majors go....they arn't worth much. If you're going to be 60k+ in debt you might as well get a major in a field that might pay you back that money.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance When you compare degrees received to pay received after graduation, there are few degrees that seem to make sense. Mostly, the degrees are in things like Accounting, Computer Science, nursing, those types of things. Things that are more specific to the work you'll be doing. Things like psychology, history, sociology, good luck. You might be fortunate and do better than if you had no degree, but chances are you'll have a miserable salary.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>However, DH's best friend...I don't know what she is going to do. She "paid her own way so no one could tell her what to do," ie she has a mountain of student loans. She got her Associate's degree from a private school in Missouri, did part of one year at one of our Washington state schools, but decided it was too big. So she got her BA from a different expensive private school. Her degree is in Theater. Then she knew you couldn't do anything with a Theater degree, so she went to get her Masters in theater at UNLV. She got a job stage managing for O but after completing her degree decided that "this life maybe isn't what she wants." So she went BACK to UNLV to get her teaching certificate. Of course, now there are no teaching jobs, so she is still working at O, and substitute teaching. And in debt up to her eyeballs.<<< You just gave the best argument for people paying their own way through college that I can think of. If I had been her parent and I had paid for all that lack of vision, I would have probably have gone through the roof. This person you described seems to have a never ending stream of bad decisions. Is she going to have to pay for that flight of fancy, yup! It would be nice to think that perhaps she learned from it but with that track record, I truly doubt it. Her debt will be blamed on her parents not "giving" her the money to pursue her dreams, when in reality it was her own bad choices that caused the problem. It just shows you that you do have to have a certain amount of intelligence to get a degree, however, getting one does not necessarily prove that you know what your are doing.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Things like psychology, history, sociology, good luck. You might be fortunate and do better than if you had no degree, but chances are you'll have a miserable salary. <<< This is not true. I have a degree in International Relations and let's just say, salary wise has not been miserable, far from.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I know when I did my BSc at Aberystwyth (the Uk's UC Berkley kind of), I went with no help. I did have a scholarship however. When I graduated I was in dept to the tune of about $36,000. It was paid back by the time I got married, 4 years later. But back then tuition was free and my debts were because I did internships in Europe and Africa. I think those days are long gone. they are talking about charging $18,000 a year for tuition in Britain now. I can only imagine. But I have to be honest, putting myself through college I think was a better learning experience than if I had help. It meant I could do many things I wanted to do earlier than peers, and it meant I was a very mature 21 year old graduate, being in management by 23, middle management by 25 and senior management before I was 30 in a major multinational. I am not sure if I would not have been as responsible if I wasn't on my own sort of speak. But we would love more kids, but we stopped at two because of the affordability factor.
Originally Posted By velo Hey Longhorn, as I am the mom of a History major can I ask what you're doing now? <--totally supports doing/majoring in what one loves but..
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance ">>>Things like psychology, history, sociology, good luck. You might be fortunate and do better than if you had no degree, but chances are you'll have a miserable salary. <<< This is not true. I have a degree in International Relations and let's just say, salary wise has not been miserable, far from." Dave, did I not say that there are exceptions? And international relations is a whole lot more of a focused degree than psychology or sociology would have been. Go look up the stats and you'll see what the average person will earn with a BA or BS in psychology.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo velo - I am not Longhorn, but my AA was in History and Communications (with German) and then my BSc was initially in international history. I changed to international relations so that I could study more political science, economics and law modules. My extracuriculars were my key to getting started - president of our Dorm, nightline counsellor, and President of Student Community Action (took a group of 5 community volunteers and grew it to >300 with 42 projects and a $3m per annum turn over, as well as architecting the national support and finance map). I also took extra teacher training modules and qualified as a school teacher, but it was the social side I loved. when I graduated, I was blinded by love and took a role as a trainer in a customer service call centre for an international grocery store. I learnt alot about pilot project management, market intelligence and management information. I hated it and became a social worker. Again, I loved social work to a degree, but I missed leading and developing the strategy. At that time my fiance of 4 years went off with another guy and my world fell apart when I sustained a back injury when trying to help a client in medical need. Saved his life but threw out my back. As a built my strength up, I then thought about how to move the career strategically. I applied to be a social care systems trainer for the market leading firm and got the job. Spent the next few years travelling and teaching, then learning lean six sigma business process mapping skills and went into policy process consultancy. I was then promoted to head of implementation services with a team of 70 trainers, consultants, project managers, data migrators and technitians. It was fab and I qualified as a pro project manager. Then we won a national programme working for the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. The programme lead had a nervous breakdown (mix between work and his marriage falling apart). I stepped up and worked reporting in to the Deputy Prime Minister. I was then head hunted to a multi national as a social care, education and health business architect, managing large scale bids for outsourcing and managed service, as well as interventions for failing local authorities. Within a year I was promoted as head of service as one of the top 200 leaders in our 64,000 people british operation. We did some major turn around work in education and social care, and the highlight was giving a key note speech at an international conference in Copenhagen, showcasing our transformation of flexible working in the sector. Also I was one of the architects of sure start - a new under 5's provision for anti natal care, parent craft and child development with employment and benefit advice. Getting tired of laying people off as we shipped jobs over to Asia, I joined a boutique consultancy running the children's service and helping with adults. I was the programme director for bringing a new law for foster care, developing a pilot from a vision to a working economic and operating model, managing the pipeline of applicants, getting treasury budgetary approval, and taking the pilots live with 7 local authorities affecting 1100 foster kids. The model has been a success and is rolling out nationally now. At the same time I have 14 other smaller projects including two pilots for new elder and disablerd care personal budgets (again a major change). I was then headhunted to do a conversion of oncology care of a new specialist cancer hospital, and manage new service model development for trading government services, developing a social value commissioning model for the EU (think buying green, organic, ethical, supporting back to work moms, disabilities etc.), and directing a capital build programme of Children's Centres and elder residential care units. Sadly although the work went well, the company I was working for (largely a constuction firm who programme managed the building of the London Eye, the London Underground extension and the St Pancras Kings Cross refurb) had little appetite for the type of work we were doing and laid me off. They went under 2 months later. I then set up my independent practice and have set up shared services in education; served as an interim Programme Manager for the Pan London HIV Prevention Programme for the 7m people of London, 500k with HIV working across 31 local authorities and 32 health trusts to turn the programme around, develop the sexual health plan for the Olympics in 2012, and embed new ways of working with LGBT communities, African and Eastern European communities. Currently I am managing a portfolio for strategic redesign and budget savings with 3 adult service departments, 2 children service departments, and developing a new shared service model for the 2nd largest college in England. I mentor 4 managers and teach at the college as a guest lecturer. That is where history got me. A degree simply opens a door in the early years. And it's not what you do, but the way that you do it, and that's what get results. Sadly history is underrated, but it gave me a lot of the basic tools and disciplines I have used since.
