Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I agree that is the way forward, definately. As a kid, DL was no where near as crowded. It was never meant to be a gym or country club. It was supposed to be something special. But I suspect these people bitching and moaning will behave like Marriott owners. A year ago MVCI (like DVC) announced they would develop a new points based system rather than owning a week, but there would be a $700 fee to join. Now most of the units were $25,000 - $50,000 to buy into and cost about $1500 a year in maintenance. But these folks quibbled even though they could use their weeks at their resorts as normal, but it would make it easier for short breaks and to go to other Marriott resorts around the globe at a lesser price. There was a lot of gnashing and 10's of thousands of posts about it, almost all negative. Now, about 50% of ownership is in the new system. I am sure those that are moaning now will either: A) Pony up the cash because they realise it is still better value than day tickets B) will not buy an AP but will find new ways to go (California pass for other attractions) or discount deals C) Will buy passes to other parks D) will return to a once a year treat I just still see it as a win win and would argue their is scope to raise Ap prices even higher.
Originally Posted By Bolna Bob and Dave, I agree with some of the aspects you are mentioning. If you can't afford the trip to WDW anymore after this price increase, perhaps your budget was already calculated too tightly beforehand. And one should note that there was actually also a DECREASE in price in one regard: The park-hopping option for the one-day park hopper only costs $35 now as compared to $54 before. One can wonder how many people buy a one-day park hopper, it is $127 now including taxes, but it is more of an option now than it was before. If you just look at it from a business perspective, the question is when will ticket price increases cut into other spending at the park? If I understand what I read about DLP correctly, that was one of the issues which lead to the problems of the first years: the Europeans regarded the ticket prices to be too high and so they still came, but did not spend on food and merchandise.
Originally Posted By MousDad Ticket prices must not be considered a sensitive topic in house. Because I know for a fact that they erase negative comments directed at park attractions.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo NOw that reminds me Mousdad, about Spirit#s social media thread. The worst bit about their approach is they have only published my comments when positive or neutral. After a while I just stopped bothering. I think that is what they want, for those of us with concerns, to stop bothering.
Originally Posted By Bolna And some more online research... Allears has a wonderful category with historic ticket prices: <a href="http://allears.net/tix/tickethistory.htm" target="_blank">http://allears.net/tix/tickethistory.htm</a> And even a specific subpage for MYW tickets: <a href="http://allears.net/tix/MYWhistory.htm" target="_blank">http://allears.net/tix/MYWhistory.htm</a> So, since we want to compare apples with apples, we just compare the 2005 MYW tickets with the 2011 MYW tickets (2005 was the year MYW was introduced). My guess would be that one of the standard options which is sold a lot would be the 7-day MYW ticket with park hopping, so no water parks and expiration 14 days after first use. The prices we compare are: 2005: $234 2011: $322 Sounds like a steep increase: $88. But then we all know that there is something called inflation (that's why it makes me crazy when my fellow Germans complain about how expensive things are by recalculating it in DM instead of Euros - the DM hasn't been around for 10 years now, of course things are more expensive now! Sorry...). So inflation - thankfully the United States Department of Labor - Bureau of Labor Statistics offers a nice little inflation calculator: <a href="http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bls.gov/data/inflat...ator.htm</a> So our 2005 ticket price of $234 would today be - adjusted for inflation - $269.47. Which means that out of the price increase of $88 over 6 years, $35.47 are inflation and $52.53 are a real price increase. That's a 19.5% increase outside of inflation.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Great bit of research Bolna. Now if that were ploughed back into the parks and resorts, I would be fine with it. and therein I think is the real issue. But it is in the case of DLR, and I think it would be useful for you to post that info on the DL thread.
Originally Posted By Bolna Ok, I put it out there into the DL thread, who knows what they will make of it. I think their prices follow different rules and I am too lazy to do the math for them as well. Of course the interesting thing would be to see how those increases actually resulted in higher earnings. If attendance was low it won't bring more money. I am really wondering whether the time of this increase might not mean that bookings for the summer are low at WDW and they want to prevent a bad result for that quarter by having the price increase earlier than usual.
Originally Posted By standor Bolna: If they kept the price affordable, more people would be able to go to their resorts and therefore there profits would increase. In the malls, when stores have sales, more customers are there and more stock is getting off the shelves. It's the same in all businesses, including theme parks.
Originally Posted By -em I think it's a perfect example of catch 22.. Fewer people are entering the gate so you charge them more to help bridge the financial gap of less people in park... Personally I'm in the ballpark of I'd have ZERO issues for the price increase if it meant a better park experience.. Things like great service, cleanliness, proper maintenance, quality and fresh entertainment etc. But the reality is not well that which makes the sharp increases harder to accept. Taking Bolna's numbers between 2005 and 2011. Has the Disney experience been increased 52 dollars? How many new shows, attractions, entertainment offerings have been added in the 6 years? -em
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>NOw that reminds me Mousdad, about Spirit#s social media thread. The worst bit about their approach is they have only published my comments when positive or neutral. After a while I just stopped bothering. I think that is what they want, for those of us with concerns, to stop bothering.<<< That's exactly it. They want to cut out people that know better and cultivate their own fanbase.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But the reality is not well that which makes the sharp increases harder to accept. Taking Bolna's numbers between 2005 and 2011. Has the Disney experience been increased 52 dollars? How many new shows, attractions, entertainment offerings have been added in the 6 years? <<<< Practically none, and even then, there's nothing hugely new or innovative.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "You know just to play Disney's(devil's)advocate here for a second, I have to say, if your trip is cancelled because $200 suddenly puts it beyond reach, I think you should not have EVER planned to stretch yourself SO THIN in the first place." The thing Bob is that it's not just the $200 increase this time, it's a series of prices increases that have been accumulatiing over the past few years, and not just in ticket prices, but in lodging and travelling costs. So a road trip that might have been doable once for $2000 is now $3000. Add to that that other non vacation related household expenses have skyrocketed as well. For instance, take healthcare. Many Americans (including yours truly) have been forced to switch to high deductible health insurance plans. We just met our famility deductible this year ($3000, we had an unusual year and probably won't meet the deductible net year), which is money we won't be spending at Disney. Add in rising fuel, education and food costs and the end result is another staycation at home.
Originally Posted By fkurucz It's entirely possible that Disney is changing its target market by raising prices. Which market that is, I am unsure, but it's one that has more money to spend.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Based on these boards, I think it's apparent to what kind of market that they want. Well off, able to stay and play, and generally positive people that don't know the company's history and what they are REALLY capable of doing.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "The thing Bob is that it's not just the $200 increase this time, it's a series of prices increases that have been accumulatiing over the past few years, and not just in ticket prices, but in lodging and travelling costs. So a road trip that might have been doable once for $2000 is now $3000." Understood and I hear ya. I was referring, though, specifically to an official blog comment by a poster who said now that the cost of her holiday was $200 more that she could not afford to go. My point still stands - if your margins for expenditure are THAT tight, you have NO business planning a holiday. Sort you house and budget out(hell, watch that new "Extreme Couponing" show - that stuff is AMAZING!!! Oh that we had that going on here in Australia!!!)!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>My point still stands - if your margins for expenditure are THAT tight, you have NO business planning a holiday.<<< I disagree with this, seeing that I've been in that position. While I don't think you should extend yourself beyond your financial means for a trip, I do think that careful spending and saving is the best way to go about a trip like this. And with something like this, 200 bucks IS a lot of money and could be that tight. I mean, to purchase my tickets for my next two trips (4 day pass, two days for each trip) I've saved pocket change and dollar bills. If the price went up 200 bucks, I would have been out of luck, too, when it comes to tickets. The trip would have been at least delayed, cancelled, or cut down. But, by saving for it, in the budgeted way, it's not out of my means, and I'm not having to cut anything else out of my life or for my enjoyment than I usually would have to. Maybe it's just a different way of looking at the numbers, but I think there's nothing wrong with setting a limit for yourself and abiding by that. 200 bucks is a lot of money, as far as I'm concerned. Granted, my perceptions of going to Disney are different, as I don't expect for it to be a huge venture, seeing I'm two hours away, and that cuts costs, but even for a larger vacation, like I took last year to Boston, had the same budgeted look and "cap". Sure, we had some leeway with it, but margins are margins.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>While I don't think you should extend yourself beyond your financial means for a trip, I do think that careful spending and saving is the best way to go about a trip like this. And with something like this, 200 bucks IS a lot of money and could be that tight.<< Correct. A lot of people scrimp and save for their Disney trip, and a $200 price increase, coupled with an overall environment where the cost of living is outpacing wages, can be a deal breaker for many people. In the not too distant past many would have just whipped out the credit card and just done it, knowing that the home equity ATM was availble. Now not only is there no "equity ATM" but many homeowners are underwater in their mortgages and worried about their jobs. Suddenly those cummulative price increases do matter.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^ Right. And it doesn't even have to be as serious as that. 200 bucks is 200 bucks. If you don't account for spending that extra money, where and how are you suddenly going to make it appear?
