Originally Posted By ecdc >>No, that's not true.<< Why? Cause you said so? You were the first to assert that al Qaeda has been defeated and the war won. Would you care to back that up?
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains So the war was won?!?!? Great does that mean my nephew will be home safe and sound for Christmas? Odd I didn't hear anything on tonights or any other nights news that Al-Qaeda was defeated and that Osama BinLaden was either captured or killed! Is it suppose to be a secret?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <a href="http://www.michaelyon-online.com/the-art-of-the-end-of-war.htm" target="_blank">http://www.michaelyon-online.c...-war.htm</a>
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains It doesn't say the war is over... <<It would be something to see Zawahiri or Bin Laden, captured like rats, shaved of hair and beards, put before the world to face the families of the thousands of Americans, Iraqis, Afghans, and so many others in Pakistan, Africa, and Europe, that they have murdered. >> They are still out there walking around - biding their time - It's not over. If it is why are the soldiers not on their way home?
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?_r=1&hp" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12...?_r=1&hp</a>
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <It doesn't say the war is over...> No, it doesn't. But it does say, "Al Qaeda was handed a vicious defeat in Iraq" <If it is why are the soldiers not on their way home?> They are. We are beginning to withdraw our forces. Of course, we still have troops in Germany, and that we won that war over 60 years ago.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Of course, we still have troops in Germany, and that we won that war over 60 years ago.<< That disingenuous argument has been debunked several times on these boards, as elsewhere.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains So then why were there these 2 soldiers killed on 12/4 7 soldiers killed in Nov 7 soldiers killed in Oct These were all hostile deaths - not including the non-hostile deaths
Originally Posted By ecdc But gottaluv, surely we've had 16 soldiers killed in Germany in the last two months. I mean, we have soldiers there too ya know, so it's clearly the same thing.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains Hmm - I did look that up with his post - but no hostile deaths... All I want is for all the soldiers to come home - safe and sound - so if the war is over bring them back.. but since my nephew just went in Nov - I am guessing it's not really over!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "And they've been doing an excellent job, defeating Al Queda and winning a war, in spite of so many people telling them they couldn't." Take a hint from current events. No matter when we leave, chaos is likely to break out, so we might as well get out and prevent any more needless military casualties. We've done nothing over there than would suggest we've improved the place. We've certainly not been greeted as liberators. That guy didn't throw a shoe at Bush because he was hoping he had it in a different size. People there are angry, and it will spill over again no matter what we do.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Or not. Look, I didn't say the war is over or that there aren't still problems in Iraq, or that it's now just like Germany, so the ones being disingenous here are those pretending I did.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains I am truely confused Douglas - not being disingenous at all. You said... <<And they've been doing an excellent job, defeating Al Queda and winning a war>> Now you say... <<Look, I didn't say the war is over or that there aren't still problems in Iraq>> If the was was won - wouldn't it be over?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh No. You can be winning a race and then lose it, if, say, someone trips you just before the finish line. We are winning in Iraq, but we haven't won yet. But we're getting close.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>You can be winning a race and then lose it, if, say, someone trips you just before the finish line.<< Or throws one of their running shoes at you.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains See the questions come as you say <<defeating Al Queda and winning a war>> That implies that the war is won.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains As does this one... <<It doesn't say the war is over...> No, it doesn't. But it does say, "Al Qaeda was handed a vicious defeat in Iraq" <If it is why are the soldiers not on their way home?> They are. We are beginning to withdraw our forces. Of course, we still have troops in Germany, and that we won that war over 60 years ago.>>
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< it does say, "Al Qaeda was handed a vicious defeat in Iraq" >>> And we see another subtle attempt to link Al Qaeda with the invasion of Iraq. It's certainly true that Al Qaeda has been losing ground in Iraq recently, due to "the surge" and other reasons, but making such statements completely sidesteps the issue of Al Qaeda having any stronghold in Iraq to start with being a result of the US invasion, rather than a reason for it. But the people that have supported the war in Iraq all along will continue the relentless campaign to subtly link Saddam, Al Qaeda, and 9/11 in order to justify their position.
Originally Posted By ecdc Great, important point, Superdry. The Pentagon has said al Qaeda makes up roughly 2-3% of the insurgency. Al Qaeda was a miniscule presence in Iraq, compared to the disbanded Iraqi army we angered.
