Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well, it must have been an over-sight on our part, dear--although I can't imagine why. We're always looking for woody's like you!!
Originally Posted By k_peek_2000 I think there is one thing we can all agree on. DCA is going to be one hell of a grand theme park........eventually.
Originally Posted By jonvn It was going to happen eventually no matter what. That was always the thing. All the tsuris going on for this place. It was either going to be popular as it was, or it would be fixed in one manner or another. It will be built up to the place where it will bring enough revenue in for Disney. No more, no less.
Originally Posted By dshyates "It was either going to be popular as it was, or it would be fixed." Its getting fixed now. The knee jerk reaction to kill everything (Eureka! 3 bags full, etc) not nailed down when Disney realized how unpopular the park was, was concerning because they had NO idea why people didn't like it. Apparently they don't have the Internet. "It will be built up to the place where it will bring enough revenue in for Disney. No more, no less." Ah, yes. But the key word there is "enough". I am pretty sure they think enough is "ALL" they can eek out of the place. Something in the business world called "maximizing profits".
Originally Posted By Bob Paris On wonders what we'd have in the pipe now if the previous clueless morons were still in charge. You know, the dopes who built the kiddy car park fair in the first place? I wonder if they'd be trying the eighth iteration of BMX Games and Deltones Concerts By The Seagull Poop Infested Bay? One things for certain.......we'd have a helluva lot more pretty shops. rolls eyes
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> It will be built up to the place where it will bring enough revenue in for Disney. No more, no less. << You tend to reduce this to just a business equation. I believe there's more to it than that. Like "art", and "taste", "entertaining", and "storytelling". If you get these right, the money will follow. It's not as cut and dried as - we can invest x amount of dollars with the anticipation of recieving y in returns. If that were all they were interested in they could run a chain of laundromats and save themselves the trouble.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Its getting fixed now." No, it's getting changed now. Not fixed. "I am pretty sure they think enough is "ALL" they can eek out of the place." Yes. And that does not mean making it a paradise on earth. It will be at theme park, calculated to bring in money. And little else. "You tend to reduce this to just a business equation." That is all it is now. Looking at the changes they are planning for DCA, the concept of art and taste plainly have not entered into any of their thinking.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>"Its getting fixed now." No, it's getting changed now. Not fixed.<<< It debuted as bad product. Broken. Like a new car that gets recalled to repair something that was designed badly or fabricated poorly. The manufacturer is not taking it off the road completely, just replacing what is wrong with the place. DCA is being fixed. >>>It will be at theme park, calculated to bring in money. And little else.<<< I hardly believe you think that way. I think you to be more of a fan than that. If you truly felt that coldly and detached from the subject matter, I doubt you'd put in as much effort thinking about, going to, and arguing about Disney's parks. Even this one. Most people feel that there is something extra that distinguishes Disney's parks from other parks. Call it heart, call it art, call it creativity, call it whatever. I think you know the difference. I also think you like to take extreme views sometimes just for the sport of argument. >>>Looking at the changes they are planning for DCA, the concept of art and taste plainly have not entered into any of their thinking.<<< Your opinion. I disagree.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Most people feel that there is something extra that distinguishes Disney's parks from other parks." While the upcoming changes to DCA are likely to be very nice and well received, I do have to agree with Jon on his point. The intrusion of more and more Pixar themed attractions pigeonholed into the California theme are clearly an attempt at synergy and have little to do with artistic or creative integrity. Thus, as cynical as it may sound, the obvious conclusion can be made that Disney's Anaheim operations are viewed by management as (mostly) a resource for income growth not specifically as a creative endeavor.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>Thus, as cynical as it may sound, the obvious conclusion can be made that Disney's Anaheim operations are viewed by management as (mostly) a resource for income growth not specifically as a creative endeavor.<<< I can see your and jonvn's point, but I'm not willing to go that far. I agree that it would be better to see more well rounded themes for new attractions, including a few that are based on Disney and Pixar animation, but also based on other themes that do not necessarily tie into the films. But so far, I am not disappointed by the new Pixar based attractions. The most recent attractions that I felt were very disappointing were Pooh, Tower of Terror, and everything in Paradise Pier - none of which were Pixar themed. As long as the new attractions are fun and popular, I guess the company feels they are giving their customers what the customers want. I'm willing to attribute it to laziness, or maybe a fear that anything not based on an already popular theme might be a failure. But I don't think it's downright greed stemming from a naked desire to mine as much money out of the joint as possible. I do think that they want to build great attractions, if nothing more than just to stay competitive. Their recent bad attractions didn't bring them much lucre, after all. So hopefully the mediocre attractions are behind us. Maybe, hopefully, it's a phase they are going through (this business of basing major attractions on cartoons), albeit one that is lasting over decades. My hope is that someday, someone like Tony Baxter or somebody will have the clout to get an awesome new E-Ticket built that is not based upon an existing film/animation/Pixar based property, and that might open the door to more non-cartoon attractions in the future. But in the meantime, I'll see you at Disneyland/DCA on all the new Pixar rides.
Originally Posted By jonvn "It debuted as bad product. Broken." It debuted as a pretty good product, but it has since been broken. "DCA is being fixed." No. It's being changed. That does not equate to it being fixed. That equates to it being changed. We'll see if it is any better or worse after these things are put in. "If you truly felt that coldly and detached from the subject matter" I think you misunderstand what I mean. I was referring to how Disney is going to do the things they do. Not how I personally feel. I don't think they have an artistic bone left in their body, and they do whatever they do in an utterly calculated way to wring every last cent from the public in any manner they can. And they won't spend a cent more than they have to in order to accomplish this. It's a typically cynical entertainment conglomerate now, and not what it used to be at all. "Your opinion. I disagree." Take a look at Tomorrowland in WDW for a good example of cartoons gone wild. It's simply terrible, and they are planning on making it worse with the removal of CoP for a ride based on the Incredibles. That is what they are basically planning now for DCA. Ridiculously shoehorned and inappropriate attractions being placed in areas that they do not belong in. They are spending a good deal of money. That does not equate to quality. That equates to money.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But so far, I am not disappointed by the new Pixar based attractions." Go see Monster's Inc Laugh Factory.... "The most recent attractions that I felt were very disappointing were Pooh, Tower of Terror, and everything in Paradise Pier" I don't mind the Pooh ride. The kid likes it. It's about the same as the one in Florida. The one in Florida is a bit nicer, though. Tower of Terror is precisely the type of ride I dislike. It's absolutely nothing but an excuse to throw you up and down a bunch of times. Same for Paradise Pier rides, but at least they are, without pretense, what they are. I don't care for them either. Others do, I don't. "My hope is that someday, someone like Tony Baxter or somebody " It would not be him, because he's way too into the whole fantasy deal to do much else. He does it very well, but he's really a one trick pony on this stuff. "I'll see you at Disneyland/DCA on all the new Pixar rides" I suspect I'll ride them once to give them a chance. But I just don't want to look at carttons one after another. One of the hallmarks of Disney theme parks is the variety in the themes and types of experiences they offer. If they boil that down to one type of thing, they lose their quality, and it doesn't matter how much cash they spend on these things.
Originally Posted By jmuboy "Thus, as cynical as it may sound, the obvious conclusion can be made that Disney's Anaheim operations are viewed by management as (mostly) a resource for income growth not specifically as a creative endeavor." Truer words have never been spoken - for better or worse, DL is now viewed at the future growth cash cow for the WDP&R division now that WDW attendance and hotel occupancy is relatively flat. We are not getting more hotels and DVC and expanded DTD and a DL Hotel renovation because Disney feels like DL deserves it. They know they are simply missing out on income that is going to competitors in the area. The changes to DCA are just a way to help keep people in the resort to keep those hotel rooms and DTD restaurants full.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff jmuboy said: "We are not getting more hotels and DVC and expanded DTD and a DL Hotel renovation because Disney feels like DL deserves it. They know they are simply missing out on income that is going to competitors in the area." No, the reason that there are no new hotels is because they want to expand the occupancy rate. Disney isn't missing out on competitors, jmuboy. They have plenty of hotel rooms that sit empty everyday. When those get filled up there will be more hotel rooms. But even so, there are more hotels coming on the east and west side. As for more DVC units? That whole new wind of the Contemporary is supposed to be DVC units I believe. the Disneyland Resort is getting an infusion of cash because it has been performing above what they expected and they're trying to take advantage of that. Remember that 2007 was a record year of attendance for the Resort.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff Oops, jmuboy. I misread your post. I thought you were talking about WDW not getting more of an expansion. My bad. I was rather confused at that argument. It turns out I was just confused. Hehe.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>It debuted as a pretty good product, but it has since been broken.<<< Strongly disagree with the first half of that statement, so let's just agree to disagree. It's all subjective, anyway. Regarding the second half of your statement, I'd say that they couldn't make it any worse no matter what they did. They just failed to make it better. So far.
Originally Posted By jonvn What they did to it is what they are doing to all their parks, tossing whatever whereever. It is what they are doing still with these new additions.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "Oops, jmuboy. I misread your post. I thought you were talking about WDW not getting more of an expansion. My bad. I was rather confused at that argument. It turns out I was just confused. Hehe." Yeah. That's kind of expected with USC fans. Kidding! I know my Buckeyes choked.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Tisk, tisk, tisk...were you actually expecting anything more out of them? Don't they do that every year? If you want a team that won't choke under pressure, it's Trojans all the way. Fight on!
