Originally Posted By jonvn "How does it block the view of the water and the motion of the attraction is very visible from all angles of the bay." I don't really think it's all that visible. You can barely see the motion of the swinging seats. You have to look closely. This is opposed to something like a carousel, which is plainly moving. The outer shell of the orange really blocks the movement, and makes it very static in appearance. It was a poor choice for that location.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Jovn, you really like to argue don't you." I like to discuss stuff. I have opinions and I like to express them. They run contrary to some other people's opinions quite often. And I really don't enjoy listening to people like Dan who think that it is fine to simply act like a jerk because of who I am. Dan is someone who enjoys thinking he can be nasty, and I have little patience for his behavior. "I've never won, not because I can't out-think and out-logic him" Actually, you don't seem to be able to. If you did come up with something I would consider good reasoning, I would change my mind on something. I do it now and then.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I guess I'm just hoping that some day we can come to a meeting of the minds." Then I suggest dropping the attitude towards me. There is no reason for you to act the way you do.
Originally Posted By jonvn And of course, bob paris chimes in, too. I guess being obsessed with me is a hobby.... Get over me. I'm none of your business.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I think DCA debuted as a half-baked project with some excellent parts. And now it is being changed, some more the better, so not so much." Well, I kind of would not call it half baked, per se. I'd say that it was more like a starter park, it was in the blocks, but it never got moving. It needed to be added on to, but it didn't get added on to. Some people may have thought it was a terrific product in the company at the time. And really, it was a terrific idea. They just had to keep up with it.
Originally Posted By mstaft Let me clarify my earlier post: I think Disney got scared when DCA didn't perform to their expectations- and then starting changing out the things that made it unique in favor of more typical theme park fare.
Originally Posted By gadzuux This is the second time this thread has veered off the rails and onto discussing jon. Let's not. I agree with the earlier poster (gawd I hope it wasn't jon) that said they're own going for "disneyland south" in the DCA upgrade. I think it was meant as a knock, but how bad is that idea really? The business needs of the resort are served by a better distribution of customers throughout the property. The original idea may have been two separate parks that appeal to two separate demographics, but that idea never worked. Instead they were surprised to discover that it's the same people on either side of the esplanade. So a consistency of theming and quality and density makes sense - at least to me. Otherwise the customer perceives a value disparity between the two parks and favors the larger and 'better' park. Obviously DL has an enormous lead in its offerings, but the whole idea behind any '2nd gate' is looking to the future. Most of us who still remember the old parking lot will be fading into irrelevancy as the years clock by, and soon enough DLR's core customer base will never remember a time when DCA wasn't there. All this means that - just maybe - reshaping DCA into something more DL like isn't such a bad idea after all.
Originally Posted By jonvn "If we all just agree with you, will you shut up or go away?" Oh grow up. The fact that you've now started actually CURSING at me shows how childish you are. If you can't contribute to the topic other than discussing me, then you should be the one to "go away." I'm trying to discuss this stuff with people, not listen to your stupid comments about me, which is all you ever seem to contribute. "I think Disney got scared when DCA didn't perform to their expectations-" That's probably true. Or they listened to their surveys, and are so tone deaf they couldn't figure out how to make changes within the parameters of the park they built, so they just tossed in anything anywhere. They do this to all their parks now, though. It is not just DCA. "I agree with the earlier poster (gawd I hope it wasn't jon) that said they're own going for "disneyland south" in the DCA upgrade. " Yes, that was me, when I was actually trying to discuss the topic. Hope you don't jump off a bridge now. "but how bad is that idea really? " Actually, it's very bad. The entire point of the different parks in WDW is that they are all different and have different ideas. If they were all the same, it'd feel like a rip off to keep having to pay for this one, then that one, and they weren't any basically different. Of course they should be able to provide to the same demographic, but there has to be a reason for the place to be a separate gate. It's a poor idea. It shows a paucity of talent and ability if all they can do is make the same sorts of things only.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Or they listened to their surveys, and are so tone deaf they couldn't figure out how to make changes within the parameters of the park they built, so they just tossed in anything anywhere. They do this to all their parks now, though. It is not just DCA.*** Agreed. Chester and Hester and a lot of what has happened to Epcot are cases in point. Happily, this has not happened (yet) at DisneySea. When it does (seems inevitable) I will be so bummed!
Originally Posted By jonvn I've read rumors where they are going to try and put more character stuff in that park, too.
Originally Posted By Mr X Wouldn't surprise me. As much as I enjoyed being back at Epcot, it was pretty painfully obvious that the original intent of the place was totally forgotten. That'll probably happen at DisneySea too, which is sad because the place at opening was absolutely a work of art in terms of story, layout, and seamless transitions that fit the themes.
Originally Posted By jonvn "the original intent of the place was totally forgotten." Yeah. And yet, they keep pushing its history and such. When on the TTA in Tomorrowland, something struck me as totally ironic. They boast of "the promise of the future!!" and as they said this, I looked around and saw....cartoon cartoon cartoon. They have just thrown away anything that's not lowest common denominator.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, at least at Hong Kong Disneyland (oh god, I'm about to offer a "compliment", of sorts) they are building to the new standard from the ground up. So the overall "look" of the whole place is decidedly cartoony, with the exception of Main Street and the castle which are total photocopies of Anaheim.
Originally Posted By danyoung I know this is an easily derailable thread, but I just can't let this go by - >Then I suggest dropping the attitude towards me. There is no reason for you to act the way you do.< There is every reason for me to act the way I do towards you, as evidenced by the following: >So, tell me, do you buy jewlery from QVC, too?< >You must really have self-esteem issues.< Your continuing insistence that if I don't agree with your point of view then there must be something wrong with me is really rude, jon. Your cheap shots at me and your ongoing attempt to degrade me because we don't agree is rude. I can discuss opinions all day long, but the personal attacks have gotta stop. And they start with you, jon - every time!
Originally Posted By danyoung >If it's not something that I really hear a lot of, and I'm on a few of these boards, then the average person is simply not going to know a whole lot more.< Our experience differs. I heard a LOT about the Disney Institute without even going out of my way to look for it. Perhaps they were marketing it more in Dallas than they were wherever you live. >And of course, Disney should only offer the things that you personally would enjoy, right? < Not at all. I'm just saying that I didn't enjoy the concept of the institute at a part of WDW. If it had been successful then my opinion would have been in the minority. But people stayed away in droves, so quite a few folks must have seen it the same way I did. Practically everyone who talked about the Institute online said the same thing - great idea, just not here at WDW. >Yes, he was a man of the people, living in Holmby Hills...< ...whose favorite meal was franks & beans. Sure, he lived in a nice area - I would too, with his money. That doesn't turn his sensabilities upper crust. While his films and his park were the best they could be, they were in no way catering to high society. They catered to the common man, but had so much quality that high society naturally followed, in most cases. >Don't ascribe to Walt Disney the low class ideals that you seem to think he should have had.< I didn't say "low class" - I said common. Why can't you see that there's more than just two categoriges of people - high society and trailer trash? Those are the small extremes, with most people being just folks. >He wasn't a god, he was a human being.< And this just comes out of left field. I said no such thing, nor did I even hint at it. Walt was just a great storyteller with an incredibly strong sense of what the public wanted to see and experience. And back to the original subject, I do think Eisner started out the same, but in his later Disney years very much lost his way.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Your continuing insistence that if I don't agree with your point of " Let me clue you in because you are plainly too oblivious to understand: If you continue to take an antagonistic approach with me, it will be reciprocated. If you don't want that, then you need to stop. If you don't, I really don't care, and can continue on in this fashion basically permanently. My suggestion to you is to be nice and it will be returned in kind. So for you too: Grow up. Act like an adult, and stop trying to behave as if you're some sort of martyr. Because I just don't care.
Originally Posted By jonvn That's right, because you refuse to admit you're acting like you are. It's no impasse to me. As I said, I really don't care. Act like this all you want. It only ends up making you unhappy, not me.
