Originally Posted By DAR You know nothing about me. You know nothing about where I work. You know absolutely nothing about how the life insurance industry works an industry that do not work in. So how dare you come in here and tell me that I know nothing about where I work. I've worked there for eight years. I think I have a better grasp on things then you do. While we're at, explain to me why people are clamoring here in Milwaukee to work here. Explain why my department just hired two more people to meet up with our demands. Your excuse is that "it's a business they're all the same." Well this business is not the same, it works a little differently. One of the benefits of a company looking out for its employers is that we have been offered a decent health care package. That's one of the perks of working where I do. You know what I feel bad for people who can' afford it. But you have to do the best to work for things in this country. As much as people would like, things just aren't given to you.
Originally Posted By jonvn You are missing a few points: 1) The government is having to pick up the tab anyway for those who can't pay. 2) Private industry is running things now, and it is costing us much more this way. We pay more in this country than anywhere else in the world, while millions go without adequate care. So, you come up with a plan.
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Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Private industry isn't running it right now. They are highly regulated by the government.
Originally Posted By jonvn They aren't? Oh. Then tell that to the various private corporations running health insurance businesses. They might be surprised.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << Nice strawman. I'm not suggesting that employers should cut benefits and leave pay the same. I'd like to see people receive a tax free allowance rather than be enrolled in an employer paid plan. >> So, how do you deal with the millions of Americans who cannot even get an insurance company to write them a policy because of pre-existing health conditions. How does the tax-free allowance get them entry into doors that are closed in their face because they are classified as too expensive to cover? For many people, group health coverage gained through their employer is the only health plan option available. As individuals, they have no chance of negotiating affordable health care for themselves.
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Originally Posted By jonvn "For many people, group health coverage gained through their employer is the only health plan option available." That's right. And, even if you do get health care through an employer there are issues. First, when you first sign up, there is often a pre-existing condition clause where they will not pay for something that existed for a certain length of time prior to employment. Second, there may be caps on what the employer supplied insurance will give you. As I mentioned earlier, a friend has a family member who is ill. They have a $1million lifetime cap in coverage. In 4 months, they've already gone through half of it. AFter that's done, what do they do? They have no options but to fall into bankruptcy. That's the reality of how things are in this country.
Originally Posted By avromark Then again is it right for a few to have everything - "I need a nose job, I can't live with my current nose it's affecting my health so badly", then get a nice private room, the finest surgeon (who could be doing something more productive say working with a Burn victim), or how about adequate healthcare for all, so that a couple of people who maybe I don't know were in a car crash could get treatment even if it's a ward room. You know what a ward room here is what 4 or 5 people, in many countries it's an entire floor literally with 50 or more people. It's also about how healthcare is provided.
Originally Posted By jonvn If you can afford to get more, why not be able to get it? Just because you make sure everyone has adequate health care does not mean that things that people may want, such as elective surgery can not also be available.
Originally Posted By DAR <<You mean like the ones where you keep saying I know everything? Uh, yeah.>> Well you've always been insulting, plenty of others can attest to that. <<You are starting to sound hysterical. What's the matter, the little fantasy of you not possibly ever being tossed out on your rear by your company being questioned that upsetting to you?>> It's not making me hysterical and it's not upsetting. The department I work in, if they get rid of all 500 of us, people can't pay their premiums. They can't designate beneficiaries. The beneficaries can't get paid if an insured dies. I know this because I work for them. <<The fact that you are in the same boat as everyone else that distressing?>> I'm not stressing because it's not coming to that point. Once again I work for a place were people want to work. <<What a shame for you. How horrible that you may actually not be better than the rest of us.>> I never claimed I was better, I was just fortunate in this case. In other cases maybe not so much. I still have the same car from college. I wish I would have been able to afford a bigger house. I wish my banking and checking accounts were a little bigger. But somehow having a good health care plan means I'm better than everyone here. <<Grow up.>> I did a long time ago sir.
Originally Posted By DAR One more thing to add about my specific department. Within the next five years of the 40 people in my group, 10-12 are scheduled to retire. Each with about a combined 350 plus years of experience.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj ^^ Not very unique. Have you ever heard of the Baby Boom? Everyone's office looks like that.
Originally Posted By DAR Yes I have. I just find it puzzling that I'm critcized for knowing how things work where I am.
Originally Posted By DAR Yes I have. I just find it puzzling that I'm critcized for knowing how things work where I am.
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Originally Posted By DAR Yeah you are telling how thing are at my job. I don't know or even pretend to know what happens where you work, so why would you do the same with me.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda DAR, I wish I had your optimism about my job but I was laid off from a position that I thought was safe from being laid off. The company I worked for was doing great financially, when I got the work that my job, which was designing networks, was being outsourced to India and I was no longer needed. We had several call centers outsourced to India as well. As to better relate to your job, when I got my current job selling washers and dryers, I designated my beneficiaries on-line... who knows where that information went. India maybe? As for processing payments, that can easily be outsourced. Most likely in the U.S., but perhaps to South Dakota, or Mississippi? The point I'm trying to make is that just because your job is safe today, doesn't mean it will be safe tomorrow. For your sake, I hope it is, but don't count on it.
Originally Posted By fkurucz All this arguing is irrelevant. Once the number of uninsured reaches critical mass, and once it becomes a middle class problem, it will be a done deal. But rather than fix the situation the private sector prefers to continue gouging, in typical short sighted Wall St. fashion. But by the time the political momentum for National Health reaches that critical mass, it will be too late for the private sector to fix anything. Meanwhile, we can expect lots of scare tactic commercials and lots of FUD.
