Originally Posted By TDR_Fan I guess you'll just never be able to see things our way and vice versa. You find our opinions hard to believe, but I don't think the majority of Disney fans feel that way. We are constantly amazed at how anyone could dislike Tokyo DisneySea; I think it is a masterpiece of Imagineering, but what do I know . I'm trying very hard to see things your way, but I simply can't. To say that you get a sense of wonder at Epcot and Animal Kingdom but not at Tokyo DisneySea simply baffles me.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>I'm mystified how anyone could think that the Indy ride in Tokyo DisneySea is superior to the original. It's just not, plain and simple.<< Funny, it seems to me that these views are very subjective...TDR-fan pointed out at least 5 things in Tokyo that are, in fact, better than Anaheim. WorldDisney rode both within days of each other and reached the conclusion that they were pretty much the same, but edge to Tokyo for some of the cool new effects (like the star chamber at the beginning). I'm "mystified" that folks like you can be so confident in your opinion about such a subjective (and subtle) call. For you to say "it's not, plain and simple", well my reply would definitely be "you're entitled to your opinion, I know plenty of others who disagree though".
Originally Posted By Kayoss I think it's just inherent bias many people feel with Tokyo DisneySea... because, let’s face it... it’s the most expensive and elaborate theme park ever built... it was designed for Long Beach, but America didn’t get it. It’s outright jealousy. Japan got the most elaborate theme park ever built, and America got DCA. Even if no one will ever admit it, there are many MANY people at the Walt Disney Company (and the people who report on Disney) who feel PERSONALLY offended that Japan got the ‘crowning jewel’ of WDI.. even though the fact that it even was built at all should be wonderful enough. And Leemac, by the way, there’s NEVER been a movie set with the level of detail found in Tokyo DisneySea. A movie set would use painted flats, fake wood/marble, etc. The ‘sets’ of Tokyo DisneySea’s environment are the real deal: wood, marble, cast iron, etc. Oh... put me on the list of ‘crazy’ people who also believe that Tokyo’s 20K ride is not only the best ride at Tokyo DisneySea, but one of the crowning achievements in Imagineering. Perhaps the language barrier got to you? That’s one practically perfect ride.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan There is certainly a wide disparity of views here. The attractions that Lee have called "disasters" are highly regarded by Disney fans. Of all the reviews and critiques, very few people share Lee's opinions. The very few that do criticize Tokyo DisneySea's attraction roster at least redeem themselves be claiming that the atmosphere and elaborate environments are unmatched in terms of sheer amazement and immersion. Lee is the only person I know who was not amazed by either. Opinions aside, it is fact that Tokyo DisneySea is the most detailed and beautiful of the Disney parks. The question is whether or not it's to the tastes of some people. I consider myself an experienced Disney traveller and am very perplexed at how anyone could have such views of what is, in my opinion, the best Disney park in the world. To me, that is just as preposterous as saying California Adventure is better than Disneyland, or Walt Disney Studios is better than Disneyland Paris. I don't think I would have a problem if Lee simply said he didn't like the attractions or nature of the park. What bothers me is that he presents his opinions as fact. And what he's stating is far from the truth in my opinion.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<I think it's just inherent bias many people feel with Tokyo DisneySea... because, let’s face it... it’s the most expensive and elaborate theme park ever built... it was designed for Long Beach, but America didn’t get it. It’s outright jealousy. Japan got the most elaborate theme park ever built, and America got DCA. Even if no one will ever admit it, there are many MANY people at the Walt Disney Company (and the people who report on Disney) who feel PERSONALLY offended that Japan got the ‘crowning jewel’ of WDI.. even though the fact that it even was built at all should be wonderful enough. And Leemac, by the way, there’s NEVER been a movie set with the level of detail found in Tokyo DisneySea. A movie set would use painted flats, fake wood/marble, etc. The ‘sets’ of Tokyo DisneySea’s environment are the real deal: wood, marble, cast iron, etc. Oh... put me on the list of ‘crazy’ people who also believe that Tokyo’s 20K ride is not only the best ride at Tokyo DisneySea, but one of the crowning achievements in Imagineering. Perhaps the language barrier got to you? That’s one practically perfect ride.>> *applauds* I agree with everything you said. Tokyo DisneySea, in no way, feels like a movie set to me. It's feels like a completely authentic environment, and I have never felt the same level of immersion that I do at Tokyo DisneySea at other Disney parks. I would say that excluding the Magic Kingdoms and Animal Kingdom, all the other Disney parks feel fake and movie set like. By the way, I think Journey to the Center of the Earth is the best attraction in the park .
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<I think it's just inherent bias many people feel with Tokyo DisneySea... because, let’s face it... it’s the most expensive and elaborate theme park ever built... it was designed for Long Beach, but America didn’t get it. It’s outright jealousy. Japan got the most elaborate theme park ever built, and America got DCA. Even if no one will ever admit it, there are many MANY people at the Walt Disney Company (and the people who report on Disney) who feel PERSONALLY offended that Japan got the ‘crowning jewel’ of WDI.. even though the fact that it even was built at all should be wonderful enough. And Leemac, by the way, there’s NEVER been a movie set with the level of detail found in Tokyo DisneySea. A movie set would use painted flats, fake wood/marble, etc. The ‘sets’ of Tokyo DisneySea’s environment are the real deal: wood, marble, cast iron, etc. Oh... put me on the list of ‘crazy’ people who also believe that Tokyo’s 20K ride is not only the best ride at Tokyo DisneySea, but one of the crowning achievements in Imagineering. Perhaps the language barrier got to you? That’s one practically perfect ride.>> *applauds* I agree with everything you said. Tokyo DisneySea, in no way, feels like a movie set to me. It's feels like a completely authentic environment, and I have never felt the same level of immersion that I do at Tokyo DisneySea at other Disney parks. I would say that excluding the Magic Kingdoms and Animal Kingdom, all the other Disney parks feel fake and movie set like. By the way, I think Journey to the Center of the Earth is the best attraction in the park .
Originally Posted By leemac <<I don't think I would have a problem if Lee simply said he didn't like the attractions or nature of the park. What bothers me is that he presents his opinions as fact. And what he's stating is far from the truth in my opinion.>> Hmmmm....and in the same post you said this: <<Opinions aside, it is FACT that Tokyo DisneySea is the most detailed and beautiful of the Disney parks. >> Right. Most beautiful? I know people who sat DAK is more beautiful than TDS. But that can't be right as the opposite is FACT.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know people who say that California Adventure is more pleasing to the eyes than Disneyland. But there's no doubt that Tokyo DisneySea is the most elaborate theme park in the world.
Originally Posted By Mr X I dunno, TDR_Fan, I could make the argument that Epcot is far more elaborate. (just playing Devils' advocate off of Lee's excellent parry and riposte on the lovely Animal Kingdom...and since I love all THREE parks, it's an easy argument to make) Checkmate, kid.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Epcot certainly is grand, but I just don't see the same level of attention to detail that I do at Tokyo DisneySea.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Another beautiful Disney park to take into consideration is Disneyland Paris. I think along with Animal Kingdom, it and Tokyo DisneySea are the 3 prettiest and elaborate Disney parks. All of them were my favorite parks at one time amd are constantly battling for the top position. Though I think Disneyland Paris is closer in beauty to Tokyo DisneySea than Animal Kingdom.
Originally Posted By Mr X I've got to say that people who say "there's no doubt" about ANYTHING having to do with subjective opinions is just foisting their own opinion upon others. There's plenty of room for doubt, in all these cases. In fact, there are plenty of people who have no doubt that ALL things Disney are nothing more than bourjois, cheesy, horrible faux-Americana garbage. My sister fits that mould in fact and refused, REFUSED to spend a single day at EuroDisneyland even though she lived in Belgium for six months and I gave her a free ticket! And that argument goes to Lee too, for his casual dismissal of DisneySea as "awful" just because he and his Disney exec friends would rather take the argument that cheaper equates to "smarter" and "better" (an argument I have a real problem with as a true Disney fan). Obviously...just my 2 cents.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<In fact, there are plenty of people who have no doubt that ALL things Disney are nothing more than bourjois, cheesy, horrible faux-Americana garbage. >> That statement is certainly true. I've encountered my fair share of people like that, some family members too.
Originally Posted By Mr X And TDR/Fan I think it's great that you love all these parks, and fun to read your opinion, but for every person that thinks DisneySea is more elaborate than Epcot you're going to hear a counter opinion, and for every person that thinks Disneyland Paris is more visually stunning than Animal Kingdom you're going to hear a counter opinion, and for every person who says that DCA sucks, er...well. No, DCA pretty much just sucks. And WDSP. And HKDL. Ugh. Total crap...the counter opinions here are simply based on company loyalty or hidden agendas. But I'm sure there's a counter opinion to my counter opinion.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Different strokes for different people . You would be surprised at how many people I've met who say that California Adventure is a better park than Disneyland. Believe it or not, they actually have some pretty valid and interesting points to back it up.
Originally Posted By Mr X I wouldn't be surprised one bit, actually. In fact, I know a TON of people who's least favorite park in Florida is the Magic Kingdom, simply because it's viewed as a "kiddie park". Same thing with Anaheim. Lots of people see the castle and think "okay, this place is for kids". For them, a place with a loop coaster, a bar, and some other more "fun" and "adult" stuff is a LOT more interesting. It's mostly just us Disney fans that really love and appreciate the magic kingdoms for the detail and the overall genius of the design (and the Japanese, don't forget them...they all LOVE the castle and the kiddie stuff! ;p).
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Once you take out the Disney fans, I would bet that the majority of people would rather go to a place like Universal Studios, Cedar Point or even Six Flags since they offer what Disney parks don't; extreme thrills.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, sure. But I know tons of people who love DisneyWorld. In general though, they come home raving about either Epcot or MGM (or the "resort" as a whole of course), never the other two parks.
Originally Posted By Mr X I remember back in 96 I was teaching a Florida drumcorps, and the kids performed at the Magic Kingdom on the 4th of July... After the show, the kids were led back into the Magic Kingdom for a day of fun, but we teachers were given the "priviledge" of Universal tickets. Everyone was hyped but me. (I ended up ditching the group and rejoining the kids back in the Magic Kingdom lol)
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan One day at Disneyland, I overheard a couple from Hong Kong remark that the park didn't look much better than their Disneyland back home. Needless to say, I was speechless.
