Originally Posted By Mr X Well, in fairness, on appearence only hkdl IS "pretty". Not as nice as DL in MY opinion...but they also might have been talking about the fact that hkdl has that "brand new" look to it as well. As nicely as DL has held up for 50 years (once they finally got around to fixing the decay) it still is a very old park and that shows here and there.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan I have a feeling they were not big Disney fans as they said that the park, as a whole, was not much more impressive than what they had experienced in Hong Kong Disneyland. I'm guessing (because it was Christmas week) that because of the huge crowds, their overall enjoyment was hindered due to not being able to ride many attractions.
Originally Posted By MagicalNezumi Just sitting here eating some DisneySea black pepper popcorn anticipating Leemac's rebuttal. These recycled arguments from all sides still make interesting drama on the boards. (wink and a smile) -- MagicalNezumi
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Since y'all have abandoned any discussion of Soarin' and the thread has turned into another op-ed about TDS merits/flaws... I agree with leemac on some of his points. Here's how I saw it, based on my sole visit during the opening of the park: TDS is GORGEOUS to look at; as good as it gets, IMO. I was disappointed that a lot of the set pieces were just window dressing... like all the boats in American Waterfront. They must have spent scads of money on making those things look perfect, but all they do is sit there. Yes, they help set the scene, but I felt cheated out of being able to crawl around them. Same thing with the Nautilus sitting in Mysterious Island. I thought some of the rides could have used some work. I really liked JTTCOTE, but to me the ride itself wasn't as believable as the "real-world" they created above ground. While 20K wasn't as thrilling, I perhaps liked it better, although the seating was horrid. LOVED Sindbad, and was surprised it wasn't well received. Stormrider... eh. I felt the large simulators took away from the experience, especially since simulators had already become somewhat passé. Aquatopia is great to watch, but too tame a ride... it didn't feel nearly as unpredicatble as I felt it should. There was no sense of danger from running into other craft, rocks, or getting wet. I thought Indy was good, but I preferrred DL's queue to TDS's... the Tokyo queue was too "Tmple of Doom" cartoony for my tastes. I give the ride an edge in effects, but the story is weaker without Salah in the preshow. My initial impression was that TDS was stronger with its shows than its rides. Generally I am not much for shows, but everything I saw was pretty amazing. I was disappointed with the harbor shows and the fireworks, though. To sum it up, I thought TDS was fantastic, but for me, DLP is more of an Imagineering masterpiece, even if the Paris park is mostly a tweaking of old ideas.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Regarding the differences between attractions and personal taste, it is interesting how there's such a wide variety of opinions, especially how some put things in such absolute ways. I know that I when I went with a group of friends to TDR, two of which were first-timers, they had hear me go on and on about Pooh. They liked it, but one said after having ridden Stormrider, "Come on, that was CLEARLY better than Pooh!" Interesting perspective. I don't think so, and the willingness of guests to wait in line would seem to imply that the majority of guests don't think so either, but I would never argue the point regarding individual preference. <<< Like a lot of TDS: at the expense of compelling storytelling and a cohesive through-line. I don't want to ride 20k to look at a dial whizzing around. >>> Oh, but I love those dials! I do think that 20K is lacking in many respects, and almost doesn't seem worthy of the designation as an E ticket (and please, spare me the observation that TDS never had ticket books). But those "dials spinning around" are just the kind of detail that I love about TDS. For me, they add greatly to the repeatability of an attraction. After riding a few times and seeing the primary part of an attraction, I tend to start looking around and just love it when there are other elements that are interesting. The last time I was at TDS with a group of friends, I think I had our cabin in a panic as we almost ran out of oxygen. Not that these sorts of details should be the focus, but do think that details are important. That's one of the things that sets TDS aside from many of the other parks - there is a seemingly unlimited amount of detail in the ports in general and attractions specifically that there's always something to see that you didn't notice before. <<< I want to see an immersive environment and 20k hasn't got it. >>> I hope that wasn't an attempt at a pun.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<To sum it up, I thought TDS was fantastic, but for me, DLP is more of an Imagineering masterpiece, even if the Paris park is mostly a tweaking of old ideas.>> Both are very close in quality (design wise that is), but I would give the edge to Tokyo DisneySea for the sheer ambitiousness and scale of the project.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I'm amazed frankly. Journey really has a botched execution for me. Tremendous build-up with the queue and the terravators (although they are as convincing as the hydrolators were - >>> Weren't the hydrolators such that there wasn't any elevation change at all? For me, the terravators were totally convincing to me the first time I rode Journey. When we exited into the load area, I was totally convinced that we had descended deep underground (well, at least a couple of floors to the load area). In fact, after coming off of the attraction and descending those 2-3 storeys of stairs, I tried to figure out how we had made up all of that grade change on the ride. Only then did I realize what the trick to the terravators was. <<< We are supposed to be off course and you can see the correct path immediately. >>> You do have a point there. I did half expect something to go terribly wrong at some point, so it wasn't all too surprising when it happened. The thing that sticks out to me is the painted flat used to depict what ostensibly is the correct path. If that had actually been a full-scale continuation of the tunnel, which then turned out of sight, along with the correct lighting, the sudden change of course would have been a lot more convincing. <<< The Yeti is an amazing AA - fully realized and you just get enough of a glimpse to make you come back (which was always the intention). >>> Of course you like it - it was championed by one of your best buds at WDI. Although you may occasionally stray from the path, it is truly amazing to see over time how much of your personal preference about Disney parks, attractions, and shows seems to be based on your personal relationships with the people at WDI or some other department that were involved in their creation, if not your own involvement personally. On this point, I feel confident in stating something as FACT that I'm certain that I'm right about: most people that visit Disney parks don't judge things based on their personal involvement in the parks, attractions, or shows, nor on which team within WDI was responsible. <<< The lava monster is pretty good. But size doesn't make up for a lack of experience. I just end up looking at his torso stuck there rigid in the ground. It just feels all too cheesy. The lava monster flooded in light just doesn't add a great deal of suspense or fear for me ... Then the thrill is minor and the attraction is over. >>> I have to completely disagree with this. Regarding the torso being just stuck in the ground, I never noticed this before. I'm sure I will the next time (thanks for ruining it! ). I think you may always just be on the lookout for anything negative at TDS. And, it's a she, BTW, not a he (told to me proudly by a female CM). <<< (especially when you don't suddenly come across him - he is literally just around the corner). >>> You absolutely do come across her suddenly. There's the very clever trick of the fireball on the left to grab your attention. You're still looking at it (or perhaps squinting) as the vehicle turns to the right, and then the lava monster's roar grabs your attention and you turn to the other side and are face to face with her. I think it's rather well done, at least when the fireball effect is working (which it has in all but one time I've ridden it). P.S. - Speaking of predictable courses, here's one thing that always bothered me about the original Indy at DL: I had heard the marketing message about how there were three possible different starts to the attraction, with the ride vehicle going into a random selection of one of the three rooms. The first time I rode it, as we sat there awaiting our fate to see which room we'd enter, I thought it was totally obvious: we are obviously going to enter the room where the track on the floor leads, and that's exactly where we went. I didn't see how we could ever go anywhere else, as the track isn't going to be in a different position on the floor the next time I rode. Matters weren't helped much when we went into the same door the second time I rode. It was only after reading some time later on the Internet how this trick is pulled off that I realized what the effect was supposed to be, but it's totally ruined if you happen to look down at the track.
Originally Posted By Maihama <<You would be surprised at how many people I've met who say that California Adventure is a better park than Disneyland.>> You know, we are so fed up with Disneyland-style parks that we spend a lot of time in WDSP and TDS. Our main goal in WDW is MGM Studios. Maybe we should visit Universal instead of Disney
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<You know, we are so fed up with Disneyland-style parks that we spend a lot of time in WDSP and TDS. Our main goal in WDW is MGM Studios. Maybe we should visit Universal instead of Disney >> Well, I'm not the biggest Magic Kingdom fan either. I prefer Epcot or Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World and Tokyo DisneySea at the Tokyo Disney Resort.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>I think you may always just be on the lookout for anything negative at TDS<< Ya think? Interesting points about Lee's not so hidden agenda, SD...I've mentioned it many times before but he tries to deny it.
Originally Posted By leemac I'm not going to address the bias comment specifically but on a general basis. I absolutely refute that notion. I am not here to peddle anyone else's opinion or the Company's line. The reason I happen to think Everest is a tour de force has nothing to do with the fact that I have any sort of relationship (whether perceived or actual) with the likes of Joe Rohde or Kathy Rogers. I happen to think it is a great attraction. There are plenty of people that I personally like and enjoy working with at WDI that have produced some poor attractions. I don't care for Stitch's Great Escape! but that doesn't mean I'm going to say I love it just because it was created by two imagineers that I happen to like and respect (both professionally and personally) namely Rick Rothchild and Kevin Rafferty. I also know most of the team behind TDS (even though most are no longer with the Company) but that doesn't mean I'm going to skew my viewpoint because of that. I find the attractions at TDS weak, plain and simple. I'll take another one as an example: StormRider is incredibly weak from both a story POV and in its execution. Simply making the Star Tours cabins bigger (and adding some fairly lame in-theater effects) doesn't compensate for a terribly unoriginal and unaffective storyline. The SFX are the weakest I have ever seen in a Disney film-based attraction that has been created in the last 10 years. The pre-show is actually pretty effective I will grant. As anyone that knows me will attest I wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm opinionated to a fault. That said I've had these arguments with a lot of people within the Company too. Some agree with me and some don't. The nature of the beast. Now there is little I can do (or frankly care about doing) to change people's perceptions of me. If people believe I have a bias then so be it.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Like I said before, everyone has different opinions . I can pretty much make the weak attractions argument for any of the other Disney parks and be able to list just as many points as you. You happen to dislike the attractions at DisneySea, but many Disney fans love them. I know many who happen to think that they are among the best E-ticket attractions out of the Disney parks. You think Expedition Everest is a great attraction, yet several Disney fans find the ride portion disappointing and consisting of nothing much to see after such an eye candy packed queue. Again, different strokes for different folks. It's just that when your opinion differs greatly from what the majority of people think, you're going to have a hard time arguing your point. Naturally, you should expect a lot of counter opinions. I'm sure people around here already know your dislike for the park, but must you constantly bash it every chance you get? Especially when some of your criticisms contradict what you have said in the past regarding attractions/elements at other Disney park.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <I have to completely disagree with this. Regarding the torso being just stuck in the ground, I never noticed this before. I'm sure I will the next time (thanks for ruining it! ). I think you may always just be on the lookout for anything negative at TDS. And, it's a she, BTW, not a he (told to me proudly by a female CM). >> I always though that only half of its body showing made sense, since it's a magma worm and all. Its torso is supposed to be buried in molten rock, which is a very realistic effect by the way.
Originally Posted By barboy "One day at Disneyland, I overheard a couple from Hong Kong remark that the park didn't look much better than their Disneyland back home." If by "better" they meant more to do and/or more grand then their "opinion" is so far beyond riduculous that they lack any and all credibility on assessing Disney parks. Their line of thought would be like someone not being able to discern between a beachfront condo. and a beachfront mansion.
Originally Posted By barboy Someone actually takes issue with the lava creature wading in its own natural habitat? Where the heck do you want her to be---- out front accepting Fastpasses and directing guest traffic, sheesh! I'll listen to the, "it's too short" or "what's up with that painted flat of the correct route" arguments but a partially submerged creature? Sorry, but taking issue with that is beyond flimsy.
