Originally Posted By Moderation Of course they could do something more futuristic, optimistic and forward looking. Here, I'll just give 3 things: -Feed the world. There's some neat speculation that in the future, cities could have hydroponic farm buildings. They could rip the video games out of Starcade, open up the lighting a bit more, and put a walk through hydro farm into the spot. They actually do something similar at epcot, but you can ditch the boats and have zoo style info boxes. They could probably grow enough greens that they could open a small salad restaurant with the produce. - Encase a building in flexible photovolcaic cells. The new thin sheet ones can be put onto an existing building as easily as aluminum siding. You could even flip this into an alternative energy exhibit building and throw a few windmills/PV solar panels and solar thermal/sterling engine generators up there and have them run some kind of rube goldberg machinery at the base. Or better yet, have them run a desalinization unit with an attached water fountain so that people can taste the future in water tek. A few exhibits on how clean coal and tar sands/oil shale refining work or bio conversion would allow it to be a complete 'energy of tomorrow' type of thing. - New life could be forced into autotopia by getting rid of the old stinky two strokes and going electric, or oven compressed gas for the cars.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird Well, there was no future technology represented in the concrete and steel architecture...it was all attitude. Disney's mistake with TL hasn't been the lack of fancy, future tech. It's that they have given up on the idea that Tomorrow is a place that is going to be really cool. The Mouse could do some nanotech attraction, or name the technology, but if they simply approach it as a thrill ride and miss the hopefulness, I think it will be soulless--like a lot of Epcot these days.
Originally Posted By jonvn "if they simply approach it as a thrill ride and miss the hopefulness, I think it will be soulless" That's so right. It is not about tech and gadgets and space guns. It's about us, our future, optimism and a sense that things can and will be better for us. When they again make it about that, regardless of what gadgets they display, what rides are there, or what color it is painted, then they will have done the right thing. Then it will resonate and mean something to the people visiting. Until that time, it will simply stay a skeleton of what it once was--a strangely distant and unaffecting set of theme park rides that while nice, say nothing to the public about themselves or their lives. It's an empty shell without a soul.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin The problem with TL is that most people don't have high hopes for the future, so they just try to live in the present. When TL was built and redone early on, there was still optimism about living on the moon or some planet. Lasers were cool and polyester was the future fabric. Most importantly, though, was the general public was excited about the future and the technology that would be coming. All people care about now is the next iPod or cell phone, or a combination of the two. Nobody really believes that the future will be a whole lot different than what it is today, except we will have more frivolous stuff that we don't need. The future doesn't mean what it used to. Alternative energy sources are hopefully in our future, but these things exist now, and nobody seems overly excited about them. Flying cars are never going to happen. Space travel is already covered in TL. Tomorrow is pretty much an uttainable theme. DL needs to switch to a retro future theme. I love the Verne-esque Discoveryland at DLP. I've never been there, but it looks absolutely amazing in pictures. This would interest me. This is the type of land where I would spend more than just the 5 minutes it takes to walk to and from Space Mountain. Anyway, these are my thoughts and I know most don't agree with them. I'm just frustrated with WDI trying to give us a vision of "tomorrow" and constantly failing to do so.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<It's about us, our future, optimism and a sense that things can and will be better for us.>> Maybe a big picture of Obama would do the job... ;-)
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle ^Yeah, that would be perfect: "the utopian future with no details or plan on how to get there!"
Originally Posted By jonvn " most people don't have high hopes for the future," Then they can help supply some.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm surprised people are all bummed about Tomorrowland after spending a couple of years acting as if the return of the subs was equivalent to Christ's second coming. Whatsa matter bunky, subs not quite as good as you remembered?? ;-) I don't really think it would take too much to make Tomorrowland pretty cool again. Get the People Mover running again. Put a future oriented 3-D film where HISTA is. Get a new film for Star Tours. Upgrade Innoventions by creating a lot of truly future-oriented exhibits. Make a model city of the future. Sure, that future city will never actually become reality. But people LOVE looking at that stuff, so make it anyway. Put in some Segway stuff as a favored transportation mode for the city of the future. At Epcot’s Innoventions you can see a film, get a lesson and take a brief Segway ride at no cost… VERY COOL. They should do something like that at Disneyland. I think that would pretty well take care of it. I think Space Mountain and Buzz are both pretty good attractions just the way they are.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<" most people don't have high hopes for the future," Then they can help supply some.>> But will Joe 6 Pack salute?
Originally Posted By jonvn If it is entertaining enough. Maybe they can do something to inspire people to better. I know people who chose careers in the sciences because of old TL. What can be said of the current one? Are they going to be inspired to do drive by shootings because they had fun on Buzz? Well, probably not of course, but what IS this area supposed to be doing? At least in the past, it was meant to inspire and give optimism and ENTERTAIN as well. Firstly, enterain, yes, but doing so in a way that will make people feel good about themselves, and their future. That was what ALL of Disneyland used to be about. A reinforcing visit that showed the people good things about themselves, their history and gave hope for a brighter future. Somehow people now think this is a terrible thing? I will tell you right now: People HAVE NOT changed. They will still enjoy such things. They STILL enjoy such things. But is Disney interested in doing that? Apparently not. They're now not interested in the public, they have shifted away from telling stories about the public, to telling stories TO the public that are about them. THeir cartoons, their movies, and all the while filling the customer's heads with self-congratulatory "we're so magic" stuff. I think one of the most annoying things about all this magic dream stuff is how egotistical it is of this company to keep telling people how great they are. They don't need to keep telling people they are magic. They just need to BE that, and the public will know it for what it is. But the people doing stuff at Disney now are so pedestrian and banal in their thinking that they can't figure this out. They have aimed at a lower and lower crowd who they think can barely understand proper restroom usage let alone being inspired by the future. So you end up with this lowbrow crap that is uninspiring, based around cartoons and guns, and speaks poorly of Disney and the people they are trying to market themselves to. It does not need to be like that. But it is the easiest way to make money. So that's what they are doing.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird >>That was what ALL of Disneyland used to be about. A reinforcing visit that showed the people good things about themselves, their history and gave hope for a brighter future.<< You're dead-on, jon. Walt wasn't afraid to say that Disneyland was about more than entertainment. It had civic aspirations...and youth could "savor the challenge and the promise of the future." Disneyland should take a stand. It should have the brass to be optimistic about our tomorrows. Of course, it begs this question: IS the Walt Disney Company optimistic about the future? If so, why? Is it just that they have enough MBAs who have done enough scenario planning that they've figured out how to make money regardless of any calamity, whether it's outlandish gas prices, terrorist attacks, or a crippled United States economy? Or is it that Disney believes--as I'd like to think Walt did--that we are an inventive, resourceful, and industrious people? Does Disney believe that there WILL be a "great big beautful tomorrow"...and that the only way things will get screwed up is if we do it to ourselves? I don't get that hopeful vibe from the company. I get the sense that they see themselves as the producer, we are the consumer. As long as we have money to spend they will be content making us into fat little piggies. But once the money's gone, we're just bacon. AB When in Cyberspace visit <a href="http://www.plausible-impossible.com" target="_blank">http://www.plausible-impossibl e.com</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<It does not need to be like that. But it is the easiest way to make money. So that's what they are doing.>> Don't get me jon. I agree with you that it should be inspiring. But we both know that the will always chose the easy buck.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I think one of the most annoying things about all this magic dream stuff is how egotistical it is of this company to keep telling people how great they are. They don't need to keep telling people they are magic.>> Well, given that we live in a age of undeserved high self esteem where "everyone is a winner", does this surprise you?
Originally Posted By jonvn The thing is that yes, we have problems, but yes, we are working on them. We will ALWAYS have problems. The 1950s and 1960s were not some fairyland of wonder. There were lots of very serious issues going on. Probably more so than even today. Yet Disney was still able to be optimistic and showed a promise for the future. Something that showed us that things can be better. That they can't or won't do that now is not a failing of the public mood, but of Disney's creativity and insight, or lack thereof.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird This is a Walt Disney quote used in the Tomorrowland section of the 1968 souvenir guide: "Tomorrow can be a wonderful age. Our scientists are opening the doors of the Space Age to achievements which will benefit our children and generations to come." Where is that sentiment at Disneyland today? Where is there this idea that doors to new ages are just being opened? That the future holds the promise of achievements? Sadly, that Disney-vision is extinct or at least dormant. (Interestingly, with the exception of a 1" high Mickey Mouse silhouette and the entry planter, you do not run into a Disney animation character until page 8--and even then it is a long shot of Main Street...you see the backside of Mickey, Baloo, Mowgli, Colonel Hathi, and King Louis way-off in the distance. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT priorities back then.)
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The problem seems to stem from fear that they will get it wrong. I say "So what?" So what if the future doesn't turn out like they envisioned it. TL '67 got it all wrong; just about none of what was there is an everyday thing. There are no peoplemovers, monorails, space travel, etc. Sure, that stuff is around, but certainly not commonplace. I think they just need to reach farther, instead of keep falling back on old ideas... and cartoons. Stop giving us the Three Little Pigs.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<"Tomorrow can be a wonderful age. Our scientists are opening the doors of the Space Age to achievements which will benefit our children and generations to come.">> That sentiment has been lost because after investing untold billions in the Space Program we've seen very little of practical application to the "real world". We've got Tang, and not a whole lot else.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Actually, I think probably a lot of innovation has come out of the space program, but they aren't the kind of things that scream progress.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "That sentiment has been lost because after investing untold billions in the Space Program we've seen very little of practical application to the "real world". That's right. Again, futurism is dead. If (and that's a big if) Disney had people with different creative priorities running the place Tomorrowland could, at the very least, be an place that took a more contemporary abstract view of Walt Disney's original idea of a place that celebrates hope and optimism for the future. The place doesn't have to be about dated concepts like space travel and technology to be about the future.
