Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Disney hasn't even figured out how to fix the Tomorrowland conundrum.<< Just to add ... there are many ways ... But obsessing over cartoons that do not resonate with the human condition is not the answer!
Originally Posted By ChiMike Disney DOESN'T want to fix the Tomorrowland problem. Nor do they want to fix the Future World problem. They simply want to take a different direction with the areas. They were even going to rename Future World. To them the concept is dead. Hopefully someone will come along, maybe John, and bring new life into it. BTW, this isn't a money issue, it's an issue that WDI's talent pool has devolved over the last 10 years. They can't even pull off a decent Stitch attraction and look at how much they had to work with! Does anyone really expect them to pull-off anything on the scale of Future World or TL'67? These are people who only survived because they played the right politics. They now bring us rubber mall playgrounds and VR character meet & greets.
Originally Posted By ChiMike oops, sorry. That wasn't directed at you Dean, that was in response to what you had quoted.
Originally Posted By oc_dean I figured so. You're so right .. it's scarier than Stitch's chili dog belches. I do however always remain optimistic that a new direction `could` prevail.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>They simply want to take a different direction with the areas. << YEAH! Market their cutsy cuddly cartoon characters anywhere .. with no regard whether they fit or not.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Oh little Billy .. wanna go hug the big "plush toy" cuties standing there next to the Incredibles ride? It will make you feel all warm and fuzzy.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Disney DOESN'T want to fix the Tomorrowland problem>> I wasn't implying they should or would try to keep the Tomorrowland moniker. Obviously, they went with Discoveryland in DLP, which I think was very successful. With HKDL, they went cartoony, which I haven't personally seen, but I haven't been impressed with the pictures I have seen. As others have suggested, perhaps calling it Pixarland wouldn't be a bad idea. <<BTW, this isn't a money issue, it's an issue that WDI's talent pool has devolved over the last 10 years.>> I'd say money is just as big an issue. Justifying spending hundreds of millions on redoing an entire land HAS to be an issue.
Originally Posted By oc_dean I'd say it's definitely part of it ... but as our devoted LPer "Disneywatcher" does illustrate well .. It also has to do with who's in charge. When you're hiring someone to create what IS the world renowned "Disney" .. you don't necessarily want someone who thinks sand boxes and slides are just the greatest thing since sliced bread. I also remember a very well known imagineer we all know well around here said to me point-blank at a special event in Hollywood .... "Disney is all about marketing their characters, and less about innovation." That still is ringing true with this garbage of Stitch, Incredibles, and Monsters coming in to Tomorrowland. I have to say .. that when the 1994 New Tomorrowland was unvieled .. I thought it was a unique step. As Discoveryland in Paris is the future viewed from an 1870s point of view .... WDW's is a point of view of the future dating around the 20s/30s .. with the "sci-fi" city look. As I remember .. the line was ...... "Taking inspirations from the 1927 film "Metropolis" and seriels like "Buck Rogers" as their theme. Very interesting pick for WDW's make-over. So why not continue it with what they got started with. I can think of lots of material that fits.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 I think the problem is the Walt Disney Imagineering we all knew and loved died years ago and its now just a hollow shell that is run by marketing and business people to create HIP tie-ins to the latest movie or cash in on pop culture trends.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Tony Baxter and Joe Rhode being the exception but it seems they are almost always neglected and ignored.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Thanks you for that clarification. I do think that Animal Kingdom has been allowed to do what they want. To me the biggest problem is that Disney believes that they simply don't have to do anything to Tomorrowland. They get the crowds anyway. Why invest or upgrade in the MK? So their money is better spent elsewhere in the other parks. I don't believe that ANY of the parks should be neglected. They ALL need to be maintained. EPCOT has The Wonders of Life Pavilion shut down. With no dates set for when that Pavilion will be reopened as whatever its going to become. Instead we are all still waiting for Nemo and Friends to be completed. Look at MGM. Half of that park is shut down or closed. Lets face it the parks are being neglected.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper What I'd like to see Disney do is bring in some futurists from different walks of life for a summit to see where the "professionals" think things are headed. Then incorporate those ideas or dreams into changes throughout the property. Heck, even Eisner did that with some success when he brought in architects from various walks of life to design hotels and other buildings.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Hey, you can't go anywhere if you don't try new things. It didn't work, no...but I think it was a bold initiative.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I agree that Disney needs to try "fresh ideas". But not at the cost of a run down Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Exactly, Disney needs those fresh ideas and bold initiatives back to the leading profit generator i.e. MK. Enough of the tinkering with the upcharge ideas like Institute and Destination Disney.
Originally Posted By mickey_ring I'd like to see a space flight theme return to where Stitch is now. Keep the vintage theater-in-the-round seating and have it be a next generation shuttle ride to a space station or something. Holograms in the center would look cool. Update Timekeeper so he is interactive rather than Monsters.
Originally Posted By Skylardad Hello all! I have been a watcher of the discussion boards here for some time and several topics have made me want to chime in for the first time with a few thoughts. A brief back-story on me (every Disney story has one, right?). I am an advocate for the "old-school" Disney many comment on here. I agree that Disney management needs to take a step back from the financial spreadsheets for a moment and focus on what is in the best interest not only for the parks, but more important, for the long-term satisfaction of the guests and investment for the company. One of the things that I always cherrished when I went to the parks as I was growing up was how much fun it will be to, one day, introduce my own children to the magic of the parks - to take them on the rides and attractions that made WDW so memorable for me. I have had the opportunity for several years to take my 8 and 5 year-old on countless trips. Unfortunately, many of the things I wanted to share with them have been removed. Examples: Horizons, WOM, Imagination (original), Mr. Toad, If You Had Wings/Dreamflight, 20K to name a few. Unfortunately all I can share with them now are my memories, the music, and video of the experiences rather than the real thing. For me, the proof of how great these attractions were is that even after only experiencing them through video and music my kids love these rides. My son in particular picks up on the musical reference to Horizons in the Future World music loop and wants to jump on board Horizons One. My point is that the memories from these quality attractions are lasting. They are worthy of being shared 20+ years after their inception. The reason being is that Disney did not create attractions 20+ years ago with the anticipation of retiring them after 5 years or so. Attractions were created as if they were making a movie that the guest would be immersed in with all of one's senses - attractions that were rich in story, detail, music, and visually stunning - culminating in a timeless attraction - something that not only Disney could do, but something that just couldn't be experienced anywhere else. In other words, invest millions on quality that will wow guests, make them want to return year after year (i.e. the long-term investment I mentioned earlier). Today, attractions seem to be made for the moment. Tomorrowland's current and future state is developing as a section of the park that is "for now". I understand that several Magic Kingdom attractions are based on characters of popularity; however, they are based on characters that have a proven track record of popularity - Peter Pan, Dumbo, and Winnie-The-Pooh. Disney has an unending well of great characters to go to for developement of attractions - but there are only a few that can be molded into a timeless attraction. While I have enjoyed the movies many of the Pixar characters come from, they have not had the time to show a proven track record beyond their theater/video shelf life (Toy Story perhaps being the arguable exception). Thus the talk of an Incredibles attraction and the develpoing Laugh Floor have me wondering where these attractions will be in 5-10 years. Getting back to the long-term investment concept, wouldn't it be better to find a compelling, original story and start with something fresh? Replacing Timekeeper with a re-hash of Turtle Talk With Crush seems to be a waste of money. Why develop a duplicate attraction? If Disney wants to keep guests on their property for the guest's length-of-stay wouldn't variety be in order? I felt this way when Star Tours opened at Disney/MGM while Body Wars was already operating Epcot. Or, when the Magic Carpets of Aladdin opened at the MK when there were already 2 rides just like it - Dumbo and the Astro Orbiters. Here's is where all of this ties-in to this particular thread... Tomorrowland can be expanded rather effectively over the next 3-5 years without crossing over the railroad tracks, bulldozing cast entrances or service areas by doing the following. First, based on a recent ariel photo I saw in another post of the former 20K plot of land, Disney Imagineers could develop a replacement to the Indy Speedway. They could develop a new environmentally and energy efficient incarnation of the ride (perhaps borrowing some of the electrical engineering of the monorail). Heck, they could even theme it to "Cars" by letting kids drive their favorite characters from the movie through the landscapes featured in the movie - using moving parts and AAs in the scenery. Using the "Cars" theme allows Disney to tie-in a popular movie with a subject matter that is timeless - letting kids drive thier own car. It also expands Toontown and puts "Cars" where it should be - with the Toons. The trick here is to construct the new ride before colsing the old one. This provides a seemless transition with the attraction and opens up the land the current Speedway occupies. Now, Disney has the much needed room to expand Tomorrowland as a sprawling land for visions of the future and keep the one attraction that many want to see stay in Tomorrowland forever - The Carousel Of Progress. It also gives Disney the fresh appeal that keeps guests coming back. The real key to Disney's success is to allow Imagineering to think outside of the box. No doubt, any business project needs a budget. But use the budget to force creative thinking not elimination of creativity. For an example I'll borrow some history from Horizons. I read comments by George McGinnis, the lead Imagineer on Horizons, regarding ideas and technology that he wanted to incorporate into the attraction. They were really good ones but he had a budget to stick to and was even asked to shave $1 million dollars from the initial cost. He hesitantly made the cuts but the product was still strong because there was story, heart, soul, and creativity. As a side note, there was no merchandise to sell - nothing in the ride was created with the intention of selling a product. Like any other company, Disney does have to contend with financial responsibilty. As a publicly traded company they do have investors to answer to, etc. But if they want to keep their product strong and have the lasting the power of the next generation of Disney theme park visitors, they need to get back to the style of Imagineering, management, and developement from 25+ years ago. It's really a simple formula: Listen to guests and truly take heart in what they say. Let the Imagineers imagine. Give the current group of Imagineers a history lesson on what makes a lasting attraction. Pirates and Haunted Mansion didn't become icon attractions by mistake. For those who stayed with my long-lasting post, thank you.
Originally Posted By LadyandtheTramp "Like any other company, Disney does have to contend with financial responsibilty. As a publicly traded company they do have investors to answer to, etc" While I agree with the majority of your post, this statement was one I had to comment on. True, Disney has an obligation to its shareholders (in the interest of full disclosure, we must admit we own Disney stock), but Disney pays squat in dividends - people buy for appreciation of stock price. And to me, the way to make the stock price go up is to show that the company is doing well. Doing well for Disney means that the Parks unit does well, since that is the one unit that provides consistent profits. And how do you ensure that Parks keeps growing profit? By making sure people want to come to the Parks. And how do you do that? By "plussing" the Parks to entice people to come back - since the population of Earth is presently limited. So the way to increase shareholder value is to enhance the Parks - WDW being one.
