Originally Posted By leemac <<If they ever brought back the Skyway, they need to theme the tops of the show buildings. Nothing killed the fantasy for me like seeing raw, plain concrete rooftops.>> Ditto for me. The Skyway over Fantasyland was terrible.
Originally Posted By tonyanton Lee...what site in Adventureland are you talking about? Is it between Main Street and the Jungle Cruise or west of PoTC and the train tracks? I always thought the Skyway worked at WDW better than DL, due to the larger scale and spaciousnes in Florida. IMO the DL Fantasyland gained something (a better sense of intimacy) in the removal of the Skyway, and the MK Fantasyland lost something (a unifying kinetic element).
Originally Posted By CMM1 When I made my first visit to WDW's Magic Kingdom, it reminded me of the quote from the commander running the prison camp in the movie "Bridge on the River Kwai" when he said there was no reason for a fence around the camp because it was jungle in all directions. Same for WDW - don't think they worry too much about people trying to sneak in through the jungle on the backside of the park (although I'm sure somebody might have tried it at some point). After knowing of nothing but DL for my younger years, it seemed funny not to have the high walls of the "berm" surrounding the park in MK. Anyway, my favorite plan for much of that unused space in MK would be to have them build a new and improved version of the volcano area from TDS in the "backlot" of Fantasyland. There's a ton of space in that area before you hit the train tracks (which are pushed well back from the Fantasyland show buildings for the defunct 20K Leagues and Small World). A new and more exiciting version of the Journey to the Center of the Earth ride and perhaps an improved capacity/seating arrangement version of the TDS 20K Leagues ride inside of a volcanic venue would be an interesting addition to Fantasyland. With the right design, they might also be able to put on some kind of pyrotechnic show that would provide entertainment at night in that part of the park (perhaps helping to spread out the masses jammed in front of the castle for the regular fireworks shows) But who are we kidding in terms of Disney feeling they want or need to spend any more money on what right now is one of their best "cash cows"? MK is still the top park in the US and I believe it ranks behind only TDL as the most highly attended park in the world. So with the need/desire to boost attendance figures in their other WDW gates, it only stands to reason that Disney is going to be making the big investments in those other gates rather than at a park that is already one of its top draws.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Hey Lee do you know if the "Villians Mountain" attraction is still under consideration for the 20k Site behind fantasyland? I agree with you that Adventureland could really use a new NON CARTOON e-ticket attraction.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 I also agree 100% with CMM1...Journey to the Center of the earth is a guarenteed BIG HIT if it came to WDW..hell I would even take a smaller version of the attraction in Adventureland.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "I personally feel that a big attraction in Adventureland would be the best scenario. I also think it would help WDI get away from the character-based attractions that are so prevalent at the moment. The space is also gigantic." Yeah, where is the expansion pad in Adventureland? I'm having a hard time picturing it, because I've always thought it was kind of cramped in that land as far as expansion goes.
Originally Posted By CMM1 In terms of expansion in Adventureland in the MK park, I think that poster was looking at the overhead and making the assumption that a show building or even portion of the park could expand beyond the other side of the railroad tracks in that relatively undeveloped area (depending on how much land you needed to drain!). There is a canal with the barges they tow out into 7 Seas lagoon at night at the extreme boundary (you can see it on the left as you take the hotel monorail to MK and it does stop GFR guests from walking to the MK park). But why go all that way when you already have plenty of room within the train track boundaries in the Fantasyland area behind the old 20K Leagues lagoon?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Yeah, where is the expansion pad in Adventureland?>> There are actually two. One is immediately behind the west side of Main Street and the other is a little more complicated as it runs alongside the Jungle Cruise. The former would have no impact on the canal. <<But why go all that way when you already have plenty of room within the train track boundaries in the Fantasyland area behind the old 20K Leagues lagoon?>> Because it isn't just about building any new E-ticket. It is about trying to reconfigure guest flow in a park where congestion is the biggest gripe by guests. Building in Adventureland would help balance the crowds a lot better.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Hey Lee do you know if the "Villians Mountain" attraction is still under consideration for the 20k Site behind fantasyland?>> Nope. It seems that one has died its rightful death. It really wasn't going to offer anything new in terms of an experience. Combining two different motion bases was not going to be novel enough for an attraction that was conservatively budgeted at $150m.
Originally Posted By CMM1 <<Because it isn't just about building any new E-ticket. It is about trying to reconfigure guest flow in a park where congestion is the biggest gripe by guests. Building in Adventureland would help balance the crowds a lot better.>> But adding more stuff in Adventureland would only put more stress on the very confined and narrow access to that area, would it not? There is the one bridge into Adventureland, the one gallery between Adventureland and Frontierland and the then the "around the horn" path between Splash Mountain and POTC. If there was another E-ticket attraction in Adventureland, the current entrance from Main Street would be very crowded. On the other hand, there are really two big entrances into Fantasyland, through the castle and then off to the eastern side of it where it borders Tomorrowland. Plus, if guests are deep into Fantasyland, they can always disperse to either the west (Frontierland) or east (Tomorrowland). Finally, if a big new attraction were placed far enough into Fantasyland, then there might exist the possibility to put a station for the train there, allowing another path into the area. Just as an example, the volcano complex from TDS would have the advantage of having its own walls around it keeping the illusion of the theming intact - you could have a train station on the back side "underground" in the rockwork - with the proper placement of the volcano (far enough to the right as you look head-on to the castle) you could keep the volcano from dominating the primary icon of the park, the castle - the overall height the volcano might not be that much of an issue as the JTTCOTE thrill ride could use other features than just the "big drop" - with the right configuration of space around the lagoon area, there could be room for a "volcano show" that could entertain a good number of guests at various times throughout the night, helping to space out the major crowd mess that always seems to collect in front of the castle. But any other major attraction could fit, say a "Cars" attraction using Test Track technology either running in a show building or running in an outdoor area themed to be the American southwest or some other big show building in that area. But again, why would they necessarily want to spend more money on a cash cow that still is producing lots ot "milk"?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Forget about expansion. I would be be happy to see Disney just keep the place fixed up and maintained, and perhaps do some "placemaking" projects to freshen up some areas and some plussing of existing attractions.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But adding more stuff in Adventureland would only put more stress on the very confined and narrow access to that area, would it not?>> It is all relative. Tomorrowland and Fantasyland are far worse congestion hot spots than Adventureland. Even adding the Magic Carpets didn't make a huge difference. <<But again, why would they necessarily want to spend more money on a cash cow that still is producing lots ot "milk"? >> They are planning on adding an E-ticket to MK so it seems they are willing to feed the cash cow.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Forget about expansion. I would be be happy to see Disney just keep the place fixed up and maintained, and perhaps do some "placemaking" projects to freshen up some areas and some plussing of existing attractions.>> They don't care. The place brings in scores of tourists who ignorantly think they are getting Disney's best when they are getting far less. Give them another character meet-and-greet-and-grope. After recently visiting DLP for the first time (and with visits to the Asian parks on schedule for next year), I truly believe the MK to be the worst of its type of park. It saddens me to say that because it is my home park. My earliest and happiest Disney memories are from it, but they have turned the place into an empty, live entertainment-free and tired park. Now in Paris the infrastructure is crumbling as well due to neglect (truly sad on the castle), but for the most part all the attractions are in tip-top condition, unlike Orlando (just don't slip in one of the gigantic potholes in the pavement when walking toward them!) Disney hasn't added a genuine E-Ticket to the park since Splash Mountain, which it refuses to maintain, back in the early 90s. That lack of investment may be a smart business decision -- I would argue otherwise but I won't -- but it leaves you with a very stale product. Two Jack Sparrow AA's and taking the globes off the parade floats just aren't going to change that. The MK has many, many acres avaiable for expansion. That's a moot point. Developing it is another matter.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<They are planning on adding an E-ticket to MK so it seems they are willing to feed the cash cow.>> I have heard the same thing. But until they announce it at a giant media bash, I'll remain skeptical. The only additions at WDW you can count on are more DVC units.
Originally Posted By leeharrell <<There are actually two. One is immediately behind the west side of Main Street and the other is a little more complicated as it runs alongside the Jungle Cruise. The former would have no impact on the canal.>> I can't see where the pad would be behind Main Street. The Crystal Palace/First Aid building is back there, along with some storage sheds. It would be a tight fit. Can't spot where the second pad would be. I guess they could move a road?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<They don't care. The place brings in scores of tourists who ignorantly think they are getting Disney's best when they are getting far less.>> They just need the right people at the top who do care. It's working at DLR.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<They just need the right people at the top who do care. It's working at DLR.>> Agreed. Unfortunately, I think those people are the exception, not the rule. The management teams in Florida and Paris are weak. Very, very weak.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Actually Spirit, the management team at DLP is getting much better. You should have seen the place a couple of years ago. Currently they are trying to refurb and retool the resort.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Dave, I understand where you're coming from, but many of those things you see being done would have been regardless of who was 'in charge.' I just don't think much of the top execs, both Florida imports. I just hope the resort is maintained better in the future because it sure looks like many areas have been literally left to rot for 14 years.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The management teams in Florida and Paris are weak. Very, very weak.>> Well the DLR management team cut their teeth in WDW as did the HKDL team. Disney regard WDW as the breeding ground for its executive suite.
