Originally Posted By oc_dean The way I look at it - We dared to dream in the 50s,60s, and 70s ... just to find out ... the things we want to do ... are going to take more than a few years .. or a few decades ... but centuries! There are forces beyond Earth's orbit ... that was probably taken lightly in the 50s and 60s ... and we are probably holding back .. because we have to understand those forces much better .. before we go out again! And go through much greater lengths to shied space craft from them. Then of course .... if NASA does not have the budget to do these things ... it makes no difference how many "Archie Bunkers" there are ... or "McCarthy's" to slow things down ..... the economy will do a good job of that ... without them.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt It means that the future, that is The Space Age as illustrated by Walt Disney's Tomorrowland (and this includes EPCOT), happened already. We're way beyond that now and living in the age of high speed information and communication, which of course isn't as sexy as regularly scheduled space flights to the Moon or houses made of plastic.
Originally Posted By oc_dean How about another piece of "future" that is not quite attainable .. yet "passé" ??? Fusion reactors In a 1986 film .. someone said - " If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear fission reactors resulting in toxic side effects. By the beginning of the fusion era, these reactors had been replaced," Fusion reactors have been invented .. but what I caught in a Discovery Channel episode ... we are a quarter of a century away (or more) from being used in normal every-day-living. Nothing is going to happen over night. And you'll have to excuse me .. but everytime I read somewhere that "the future is passé" ... I just want to roll on the floor laughing. We might as well be in caves .. with our clubs in our hands, and hair growing out of every orifice .. and say - The wheel is passé.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>It means that the future, that is The Space Age as illustrated by Walt Disney's Tomorrowland (and this includes EPCOT), happened already. << How did they "happen already"? You know there is a vast difference from envisioning something .. and actually doing it. It makes us sound like spoiled brats. If it's not been achieved in normal every-day life .. but already THOUGHT OF .. that means it's already been done? Hans, when you can board a flight to Mars, get your electricity from a fusion powerplant, and San Francisco looks something like this ... rather than this <a href="http://www.califliving.com/title24-energy/images/sanfrancisco.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.califliving.com/tit...isco.jpg</a> .<a href="http://pitoco.com/modo/dorflex/cidade.jpg" target="_blank">http://pitoco.com/modo/dorflex...dade.jpg</a> .... then we can call it passe .. and "happened already".
Originally Posted By oc_dean pardon the orientation of the links ... but you get my point. I'm not counting on San Francisco .. or Los Angeles, or many other major cities looking the same .. in 100 to 200 years from now! Suburbs will be pushed out so far from city centers .. It will take something to get us there .. and I'm talking something much more advanced than Bart or the current Muni trains .. which will be antiquated relics by then!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt “And you'll have to excuse me .. but everytime I read somewhere that "the future is passé" ... I just want to roll on the floor laughing." I think that's because you seem to ignore what people are trying to say. The truth is, despite Walt Disney stating otherwise, Tomorrowland was really never about the future. It was about the future as it existed back then, or rather how the 60s would be if we could wipe the past and rebuild the world utilizing technology that was available or almost available at the time. Tomorrowland’s optimistic predictions of the future blended nicely with Disneyland's Happiest Place on Earth moniker. Mid-century DL guests marveled at riding "atomic" submarines, traveling through inner space and hover craft styled "flying saucers" all in the shadow of Saturn V rocket with USA on the side. It was fashionable, ambitious, and cool. Fast forward to today, and while there's plenty of technology being developed and scientific discoveries yet to be made, the idea of systematically predicting a rosy future in such a way seems quaint. Disney should just drop the concept completely, rename the place, and go with a sci-fi fantasy theme.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Hans, when you can board a flight to Mars..." I think this exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. Who the hell wants to vacation on Mars?
Originally Posted By oc_dean If I had to compromise ... I'd like to see a sci-fi 60s "Jetsons/Googie" approach. Bright positive colors ... nothing "gloomy" - Please! lets get away from Bladerunnerland .... as TL in DL at night looks like it's part of a year-round "Halloween" state. With that in mind ... it can still go by the name of Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I think this exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. Who the hell wants to vacation on Mars?<< People with a curiosity to see what's beyond planet Earth.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>the idea of systematically predicting a rosy future in such a way seems quaint. << The idea in a theme park called Disneyland .. is to create something that absolutely needs to come off optimistic. I believe the word a poster said earlier in this topic is Archetype. It does not have to be framed in that exact "June Cleaver" approach - like it is the 1950s. I would think WDI would have the talent to script things in a way ... that comes off more sophisticated.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I'd like to see a sci-fi 60s "Jetsons/Googie" approach. Bright positive colors ... nothing "gloomy" - Please!" That sounds a lot like the look of HKDL's Tomorrowland. Actually, aside from the earthy color tones, it sounds a lot like Tomorrowland '98 at Disneyland too. >>the idea of systematically predicting a rosy future in such a way seems quaint. << "The idea in a theme park called Disneyland .. is to create something that absolutely needs to come off optimistic. I believe the word a poster said earlier in this topic is Archetype." And that's the thing... if we agree that futurology as a popular trend peaked with the public in the 70s then why even bother with it now? Speaking strictly from a business standpoint I think that Disney would get a lot more mileage by demolishing Tomrrowland (literally and figuratively) and reincarnating the place with Star Wars or some other universally known sci-fi theme rather than creating a symbol of what the future is supposed to be.
Originally Posted By fkurucz **>>^^^True, but the fact remains that space exploration does not captivate our imagination anymore. We are far more enthralled by the latest iPhone.<< We are making a lot of assumptions for a future generations.<< I was speaking about today. If they were to update Tomorrowland today, it would be for today's audience.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>And you'll have to excuse me .. but everytime I read somewhere that "the future is passé" ... I just want to roll on the floor laughing.<< But in a way it looks like it will be kind of boring. Take commercial aviation as an example. We used to think that we'd eventually be flying all over the place on supersonic airliners. Instead, commercial aviation focused on reliability and efficiency. It drove down the costs and made flying more accessible, yet today's airliners don't look all that different from the ones flying 50 years ago and I suspect they'll still look the same in another 50 years. Consider how much things changed in the previous 50 years, we went from the Wright brothers to jet airliners in that time frame. 50 years later, we still have jet airliners. Sure, they're better, but we can't get anywhere any faster, so in the big picture the experience really hasn't changed all that much. So going back to 1955, I could see how people back then had a different outlook, as they had experienced some of the most dramatic changes ever. We went from a world of horse drawn carts to moon shots in that time frame. I can understand why they were so excited.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It does not have to be framed in that exact "June Cleaver" approach - like it is the 1950s. I would think WDI would have the talent to script things in a way ... that comes off more sophisticated.<< You mean like Microsoft's house of the future in Innoventions? Yawn.
Originally Posted By oc_dean LOL fkurucz! I think my reaction to an old 19th Century Mediterranean styled home .. in the middle of Tomorrowland ... was something like - WTF! ;o)
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I was speaking about today. If they were to update Tomorrowland today, it would be for today's audience.<< Considering Disney does not like to change Tomorrowland that often .. it won't just be there for "today's" crowds .. but a few more generations yet to come ... before they'd consider changing it again.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "So going back to 1955, I could see how people back then had a different outlook, as they had experienced some of the most dramatic changes ever." This.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think the changes over the past 25 years have been equally as dramatic. The developments in personal computers, hand-held devices and the Internet have been astounding. When I took my first info-tech job 25 years ago we all had DOS computers sitting on our desk with a blinking green cursor... none of them were networked. Within a year or two they were networked... at the time the "latest and greatest" thing on the internet was the Internet Gopher... Mosaic, the first true web browser, was still a few years off. The difference is that while planes, rockets and automobiles make great Theme Park attractions, computers just don't.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Although an attraction showing a basement stocked with Bottled Water and SPAM in anticipation of Y2K might be mildly amusing. ;-) It was a great time to be a computer guy. Salaries in the field rose dramatically as they all relied on us to "Save the World". And we DID! Thank God very few realized just how relatively simple (though time-consuming) those changes were or they wouldn't have paid us nearly so well!! lol
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I think the changes over the past 25 years have been equally as dramatic. The developments in personal computers, hand-held devices and the Internet have been astounding<< While the above was a big deal, I don't think it compares to moving from a world of horse and buggies to a world of jet airliners, moon shots, automobiles, TV, refrigeration, vaccines, long distance calls and satellite communications. Life changed dramatically between 1910 and 1960. It also changed from 1960 to 2010, but I would dare say nowhere nearly so dramatically. I was a kid in the 60's and even my parents were astounded by the progress they had seen in their 30 years, not to mention the change my grandparents saw.
