Originally Posted By DlandJB "Afro American" just shows his age. It was a popular enough description in the late 60s and 70s and if the guy is 57, then that is what he knows. Clearly he melted down. Of course he was wrong to lose it on stage the way he did. I'm not trying to defend him and I've actually always thought he was odd. But this whole thing has raised a few things in my mind. First off, the "N Word." I absolutely loathe this word and it makes me very sad that black people use it toward eachother on a regular basis like its no big thing. To me, the more a word like that is out there, the more it becomes ok (in some people's minds). But there is a double standard. It is ok for them to use it -- even probably ok for a comedian like Carlos Mencia to use it, but it is still taboo for a white comedian. It should be taboo for all of them. No matter who is using it, it is demeaning. Somewhere yesterday (I don't remember where) I read an editorial that was talking about the state of comedy club humor and how low and gross and demeaning it has become. Shock comics used to be occasional, but now they are the norm in comedy clubs. It was no surprise to the writer that something like this would happen there. I also find it bizarre that one of the hecklers was on television acting like a victim this morning....like his behavior was just fine. Well Richards' reaction was way too much and he certainly has issues with rage and race, but I was very surprised that now this bore of a kid who couldn't behave himself in the club is now getting his 15 minutes of fame. Richards is an erratic guy. If he normally behaved like everyone else I'd say he looked like someone destined to do harm to himself last night on Letterman. But since he always seems to be one step from nuts, it is hard to say. If anything good comes from this, I hope people realize when they are performing, someone is going to have a camera on them and anything they say is likely to end up on the internet. I hope they modify their behavior knowing they will be watched and judged for it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Especially not "person of color", because, as they say and has been pointed out before, that's just "colored person" backwards and they're right back where they started." Back to the 50s, anyway. I never understood why it was ok to say "person of color," either. I always thought that should be an offensive thing. "I really can't imagine myself, personally (for the record, I'm white), EVER saying stuff like that under ANY circumstances." When under stress, people will fall back to their base feelings. They will say what they really think. When one is drunk, or angry, or in some other way not in complete control of what they are saying, they will say the things they really feel. The things that society dictates you must not say. The last few decades of civil rights and equality has not changed in any way how people feel. The only thing it has changed is how people speak. But when pressed, and in some cases it doesn't take a lot of pressing, they fall right back into the same sorts of things that came out of the mouths of people for many, many years. And it's never pretty.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <By the way, Kramer is a 3rd degree mason. Should we be concerned?> That was not Masonic conduct on display.
Originally Posted By MissCandice Jeez, that video was disturbing. I couldn't watch it all. What a hate-filled little man he is.
Originally Posted By DAR <<First off, the "N Word." I absolutely loathe this word and it makes me very sad that black people use it toward eachother on a regular basis like its no big thing. To me, the more a word like that is out there, the more it becomes ok (in some people's minds). But there is a double standard. It is ok for them to use it -- even probably ok for a comedian like Carlos Mencia to use it, but it is still taboo for a white comedian. It should be taboo for all of them. No matter who is using it, it is demeaning.>> OMG thank you thank thank you for pointing this out. I agree that there is a double standard. If it's not acceptable for me to use(and it's most certainly isn't) then why shouldn't it be unacceptable for a Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle to use it. Now at the risk of sounding like a hippocrite I'll admit I laughed when Rock or Pryor or Chappelle used it their acts. And it was used to make a point(which I may have answered my question above) For the record, it's quite obvious the word Richards used is the A-Bomb of racial epithets. But the term "cracker" speaking as a white man is about as effective as a sparkler.
Originally Posted By DAR Dan Patrick from ESPN was just talking on his show how awkward it was to follow both Seinfeld and Richards on the show last night. It was actually pretty funny.
Originally Posted By DAR People aren't really accepting the apology either. <a href="http://www.cnn.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/</a> The story is toward the bottom of the page.
Originally Posted By alexbook I've been listening to Patrick, too. He said the whole experience was so bizarre that he was expecting Ashton Kutcher to jump out and tell Patrick he was being punked.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I was in the car a lot this morning, flipping through various talk radio programs. Richards' apology was being roundly mocked from pretty much all sides.
Originally Posted By DAR I realize Wikipedia isn't the greatest source of truth out there but this passage is just too funny and ironic for words. <<He was drafted during the Vietnam War and stationed in Germany as one of the co-directors of the V Corps Training Road Show. He produced and directed shows dealing with RACE RELATIONS and drug abuse; "This was a successful, educational operation, boosting the morale of our men and incorporating the arts into the service>>
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I don't know if I have ever seen a man appear more humbled than Richards did last night. I'm not sure what else he could have done short of break down and cry.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The major sticking point on the programs I heard was him attempting to link this somehow to Katrina, and later, to the war in Iraq. Some felt this was a red herring, an attempt to spread the blame elsewhere. Frankly, listening to the apology the first time through, it was so all over the map and conflicted (and as I mentioned before, uncomfortable to watch), plus hearing the audience laughing thinking it was alll a gag set up at first, I don't know how to rate his apology. And I don't know what one does when they go that far off the rails to ever be able to set things right again. I think maybe he'd have fared better had he not tried to drift into deeper waters of his tirade being somehow a symbol of race relations in America and beyond. As for what they want from him, I have no idea. It was difficult at times to tell if they were more outraged at his racial remarks, or at him bringing politics into it.
Originally Posted By DlandJB The major sticking point on the programs I heard was him attempting to link this somehow to Katrina, and later, to the war in Iraq. Some felt this was a red herring, an attempt to spread the blame elsewhere.>>> The Katrina reference had to do with Comic Relief's efforts this past week to raise money for Katrina victims. Letterman was good to him...he kept trying to steer him from the ledge of incoherant ranting and back to some specific answers. He should be very grateful to Letterman and Seinfeld.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I think maybe he'd have fared better had he not tried to drift into deeper waters of his tirade being somehow a symbol of race relations in America and beyond.>> Thank you. That 'apology' was a mess. I watched it last night myself and yeah, it didn't help that people started laughing like it was kind of a gag, but yeah, when you are on the David Letterman show and you got Seinfeld there and Richards popping up on a satellite, people were just waiting for the comedy to ensue. So yeah, maybe that wasn't the place to do it and he acknowledged that. But, I wish he thought it through a little more (like that entire night at the comedy club) and instead he just went into a tangent about his comedy style and then to Katrina and blah, blah, blah. I didn't know WHAT he was trying to say most of the time. And I'm sorry, I get SICK of people keep saying they don't know how they could say such things, but yet they are not racist. WAKE UP RICHARDS, YOU'RE RACIST!!!!! You don't yell and scream at the top of your lungs like that unless its something that boils inside of you, deep. When Letterman asked him, which sounded more coherent when he answered, if they WEREN'T Black, what would've he done differently? He said something he could've had a range of different responses or something, but I really don't buy it. It was just a mess, do I think he felt bad about what he did, of course, I don't think he's a monster or anything. But, do I think he really didn't mean what he said? No, sorry, that just doesn't come from nowhere. As far as I'm concern, that was nowhere close to a decent apology and he has a LOT of work ahead of him if he expects to have any kind of career again.
Originally Posted By friendofdd I agree with you, WD. It seemed to be very deep feelings spewing out. It is my opinion that a clearly sincere apology would still not be effective. Sincerely sorry about such behavior shows that he knows it was the wrong thing to do, but it doesn't negate his being racist.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Exactly, WD. I think he should have just said, "Look, I didn't know it until that night, but I'm a racist. I never considered myself one, but it's there for the world to see. It's the low moment of my life, I'm ashamed of it, deeply sorry for it and so now I'm going to take the next X months off and try to get to the bottom of where that came from through therapy (or something). It's not what I want to be."
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy I agree his apology was fake and insincere. I mean come on, "I want to apologize to, uh, the people"---too, uh, the people? That sounds like he had to think of what to politely call them at first. <OMG thank you thank thank you for pointing this out. I agree that there is a double standard. If it's not acceptable for me to use(and it's most certainly isn't) then why shouldn't it be unacceptable for a Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle to use it.> Because it's a black-white thing, not a double-standard like a man-woman thing. It's just "different" because of history. I saw this on an Oprah show once where she and Gayle King were talking with white and black members of the audience, and Winfrey, King, and the black members were trying to make the white members understand that it's okay for *them* (black people) to use the word, because of the culture of it among themselves. But NOT for white people. I would think it's the same way like how if you've ever heard gay people call themselves f*gs among each other or use it as a joking term amongst themselves, but if a straight person called them that, of course that would most likely be considered a severe insult.
Originally Posted By DlandJB It is easier to see it and say it when it isn't you. He seemed like a guy who needs to do a lot of "personal work" as he put it. He seemed still stunned.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy and actually it was "to the, uh, people"...that's what made it sound sillier, and then I agree with those who think it was more all over the place from there.
