Originally Posted By debtee I'm not saying this to start an arguement, I'm curious as to why people like Mel and Richards can't just be honest and instead of a less then heartfelt apology which we can all see through and just admit they are racist? What's wrong with saying something like yes I'm a racist, I didn't realise I was until those comments came spewing out of my mouth. Now I realise I am, I will take steps to address this problem and get some help! To me that would hold more impact, as it's the truth and not just a Hollywood apology to save their career!
Originally Posted By JohnS1 Can a person utter a foul word without necessarily having any of the characteristics that the word calls to mind? I ask this because I have known people who never swear at all, to suddenly utter some of the worst swear words imaginable when faced with an incrediby stressful or life-threatening situation. Later, they always claim that they have no idea where the words came from. I have always wondered whether kids who might have been exposed to expressions they didn't understand or ever use themselves, might have had those expressions sitting there in their subconscious and emerge decades later only if they were placed in some sort of situation where pure anger/terror/frustration made the expressions come out for no reason they can determine. If someone suddenly utters something which nobody who knows that person has ever heard him say before, there must be something more to it than the notion that the person has simply been very good at covering up his true feelings for decades. Or, going in a different direction with this, is it possible that true bigotry can lay dormant in a person for decades and emerge only in specific situations? In any case, it sounds like an interestion area for psychological/anthropological research!
Originally Posted By DlandJB What's wrong with saying something like yes I'm a racist, I didn't realise I was until those comments came spewing out of my mouth. Now I realise I am, I will take steps to address this problem and get some help! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To admit to being a racist in our culture is like saying you are a member of the KKK or hang out with David Duke. It is interpreted to mean that you regard fellow human beings as being less than human and see your own race as superior (a la Hitler). Furthermore, it usually is interpreted as meaning that you wish harm to the other race/class/gender orientation. Not exactly how people like to view themselves. And, I think if we were honest with ourselves we'd accept the idea that "racist" isn't just the "zero to 60" (all those things listed above and more) idea, but that there are degrees of racism. There are sterotypes and there are individuals who play into those stereotypes - purposefully or not -- that reinforce them. I honestly don't think people can bring themselves to say they might be even a little bit racist...because it sounds like "a little bit pregnant." Society says - either you are, or you are not. But I believe most people lie somewhere in between. The incident with Michael Richards has at least got people talking. Given all the recent police extreme use of force stories that have also come to us courtesy of the video phone, I think it is a good time to have some dialog. Clearly there are issues that need to be discussed by all communities.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle While I'm not saying Michael Richards was right, my father said something that I thought was interesting. I was talking about it with him and I said that he clearly had to be racist, because that stuff wouldn't come out of his mouth otherwise. Now, keep in mind I haven't seen *any* footage of the incident, but dad's reply made me think. He pointed out that if the person was particularly short, or tall, or skinny, or bald, Richards probably would have jumped on one of these traits to try to insult the guy back. Before anyone can say it, no, I'm not saying that being black is an 'insult', but I guess he would have tried to pick out his most obvious physical characteristic and hope that the person happened to be sensitive about it. It was just the fact that it happened to be a race issue that made it such a big deal. If the guy happened to be really short and Richards started screaming "midget" it probably wouldn't have received much publicity. On an obviously smaller scale one thing that interests me is that when I was at primary school, a boy used to call me horrible names (fat, ugly, etc) each and every day and basically made my school life hell. The teachers never did anything about it - and yet if I'd ever turned around and called him black, or any racial term (which never even crossed my mind to do, considering my best friend at the time was also black) I would have been in a LOT of trouble.
Originally Posted By debtee I get what you are saying DlandJB. I grew up in the East End of London so there are many different people from all over the world there and it was just normal to me to have lots of school friends of different race and colour, many of which are still my friends to this day. In Australia however it IS different. I don't think we are a PC as you guys are? We certainly say what we think a lot more! Good or bad! I was reading an article recently about one of our Singers Marcia Hines, who happens to be a black lady and she wrote in the article that she used to take her daughter back to America just to see other black members of their family, as she was worried her daughter was seeing too many white people all the time in Australia! lol I wonder what would have been thought of that article if it had run in America? Not very PC is it but we don't seem to mind, it would not have caused a ripple here let alone made the news.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<He pointed out that if the person was particularly short, or tall, or skinny, or bald, Richards probably would have jumped on one of these traits to try to insult the guy back. Before anyone can say it, no, I'm not saying that being black is an 'insult', but I guess he would have tried to pick out his most obvious physical characteristic and hope that the person happened to be sensitive about it.>> I was talking to a girlfriend of mine about this whole thing and she would agree with your dad Liberty Belle. The way she saw it she wasn't prepared to say he was a racist at all. Mental, probably but racist, not necessarily. Her point was that while obviously an incredibly stupid and insensitive choice of insults, she was of the opinion that Richards just snapped for whatever reason and chose the "word" that he thought would hurt the most, be the most powerful and get the biggest response. She pointed out that Richards clearly has some ego/anger issues and theorized that the other guys had hurt his ego by insulting him as a performer so he lost it. They were in a large group of 15 people, came in late disrupting his show (and insulting him as a performer) and weren't quiet coming in and then were talking once seated (I think they were just ordering though). Inexcusable but understandable was her point. I didn't agree with her though because Richards just went on and on and on with it and I would think that if he didn't mean or believe what he was saying, the shock of hearing himself say it would kinda snap him out of it. She disagreed and thought that he was just so worked up for whatever reason that he couldn't get himself back under control. I totally agreed with her on that point! lol. I still don't know how he recovers from this though because I don't think people believe him when he says he's sorry. But I guess I kinda see her point. People *can* say really hateful things without actually meaning them. I guess some people will believe his apology was sincere and others won't and I don't know that there is anything he can do about that. It will be really interesting to see how this all pans out. I do think he could benefit from some counseling for sure though 'cause he just lost it on those guys.
Originally Posted By mele I am going to be really angry if Richards ends up paying these people any money. Being treated poorly by someone doesn't mean you deserve to be given millions of dollars. It will only encourage more jerks to heckle someone to the point that they explode because it will be a great way to cash in. Absurd. I swear, only in America can you sue someone for hurting your little feelings.
Originally Posted By pecos bill I also hope those guys dont get any money out of this. I cant stand seeing them with the halos over their heads, and the pious expressions of shock and indignity. They are nothing more than obnoxious boors who were equally responsible in provoking the incident, and most certainly should not be rewarded for that. And Gloria Allred is nothing more than a publicity hungry bottom feeder.
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