Originally Posted By FaMulan From the Californa Department of Corrections website: The cost of housing inmates: Third Quarter 2005 About the Department The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) operates all state prisons, oversees a variety of community correctional facilities, and supervises all parolees during their re-entry into society. Budget: $7.4 billion (2005-2006 Budget Act) Avg. yearly cost: per inmate, $33,581; per parolee, $3,549 Staff: 49,957 currently employed including 43,076 in Institutions, 3,073 in Parole, and 3,808 in Administration (about 31,225 sworn peace officers) Total offenders under CDCR jurisdiction: 305,083. One year change: +4273 (1.4%) <a href="http://www.corr.ca.gov/CommunicationsOffice/facts_figures.asp" target="_blank">http://www.corr.ca.gov/Communi cationsOffice/facts_figures.asp</a> $33,600.00/year to house an inmate. Wow, that's a lot of money.
Originally Posted By cmpaley And how much to execute? The link doesn't provide that. I hear it's about $2-3 million.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >><<So, you're not TRULY pro-life, then. Admit it. Human life isn't important to you unless its not yet born. You're just pro-birth.>> Humans that murder other humans, who get a trial and are convicted should die in some cases. Same goes for terrorists and Saddam.<< So, you're not pro-life but pro-birth. Gotcha.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Wishing for anyone to suffer eternal hell is monstrous in itself. God, Who is the only Just Judge, doesn't want anyone to go to hell, so who are YOU to want such a thing?" I'm the same guy who thinks the Pope is a walking, talking cluster of contradictions. Save the pedantic, self-righteous stuff for someone else. Williams was nothing but a menace to everyone he got near. He was a manipulative psychotic that no one could trust. I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I'm just as fine with him being dead as I can be. He did nothing on eartj to merit any kind of mercy, period.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<I don't know if it's just the entertainment industry picking up on what young people find facsinating, but the whole 'bad-boy' thing has been glorified for many years>> This is true, but I don’t seem to recall the situation being near a volatile as it is today, nor as widespread. These guys aren’t James Dean driving a car too fast. This is Mafia-esque to the nth degree.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>"Wishing for anyone to suffer eternal hell is monstrous in itself. God, Who is the only Just Judge, doesn't want anyone to go to hell, so who are YOU to want such a thing?" I'm the same guy who thinks the Pope is a walking, talking cluster of contradictions. Save the pedantic, self-righteous stuff for someone else. Williams was nothing but a menace to everyone he got near. He was a manipulative psychotic that no one could trust. I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I'm just as fine with him being dead as I can be. He did nothing on eartj to merit any kind of mercy, period. << Um...none of us here on earth "merit" any kind of mercy on our own, either. That's the WHOLE POINT of the Christian Gospel.
Originally Posted By FaMulan cmpaley, Williams was unrepentant. He showed no remorse, ever. He even bragged about the killings, then said he didn't do them?! Give me a break. Read Tucker Carlson' blog, he makes some really good points from the point of view of a death penalty opponent.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Humans that murder other humans, who get a trial and are convicted should die in some cases.>> Say who? Who says they “should†die? And why should they die? Vengeance, pure and simple. A principle any real Christian knows is evil. Here’s what I would like to see as a alternative? A nice, cozy penal colony on the North Slope of Alaska and a room roughly the size of a cubicle. 23 hours a day, for 50+ years stuck in this hole, thinking of all the places you could have been had you not “done it.†You want to punish these guys, there you go. Death penalty is a blessing for someone in who would be in that kind of a situation. So the question is, why does you love murderers so much Beau? Why spare him the torture of something like that?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut << God, Who is the only Just Judge, doesn't want anyone to go to hell, so who are YOU to want such a thing? >> You assume that everyone buys into that mumbo jumbo.
Originally Posted By itsme >>So you and STPH are God, now? ------ They might not be but as a dear freind to the big guy, He's asking you to leave out all this bible thumping mumbo jumbo. Everything is not about religion. Laws of this land are above religion.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm not so sure I completely agree with you itsme...but I am one of the bad Catholics who thinks this guy got what he deserved...but it took far too long.
Originally Posted By itsme Well thats it, The law states that if you are found guilty and death is your sentance then that what it is. It has nothing to do with religion.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >> cmpaley, Williams was unrepentant. He showed no remorse, ever. He even bragged about the killings, then said he didn't do them?! Give me a break. Read Tucker Carlson' blog, he makes some really good points from the point of view of a death penalty opponent<< See, this is the thing. This isn't about Williams or the particulars of his case. I am opposed to the death penalty in ALL cases. >>>>So you and STPH are God, now? ------ They might not be but as a dear freind to the big guy, He's asking you to leave out all this bible thumping mumbo jumbo. Everything is not about religion. Laws of this land are above religion.<< I'm not "bible thumping." In order for your charge of "bible thumping" to stick, I have to bring up Bible passages to thump. I haven't. I have brought up a section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church because it describes quite beautifully why the death penalty is inappropriate in our modern society.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Well thats it, The law states that if you are found guilty and death is your sentance then that what it is. It has nothing to do with religion.<< Ya know...unlike the principles underlying a religion, laws can CHANGE. The death penalty used to be a necessary means of executing justice and protecting society from murdering criminals. It has become revenge (take a life for a life) in the name of justice.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan But the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not the law of the State of California. I understand why you are oppossed to the death penalty, cmpaley, and I do understand that it is a matter of religious principle for you and for many religious people. Even though I am in favor of the death penalty, I see that there are moral issues involved here, and a case to be made against the death penalty. Unfortunately, Tookie Williams is a hard case to build death penalty opposition on. Despite his celebrity status, his reform happened too late, long after he inflicted so much damage on society, he never assisted police in capturing other gang members (calling into question how committed he was to his newfound reform behind bars, since he stuck by his old code instead when it really counted) above and beyond the killings he was convicted of. And even at the end, witnesses to the execution said he seemed to be trying to intimidate somewhat.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>unlike the principles underlying a religion, laws can CHANGE.<< They can. And if more people can make the case against the death penalty, they will. But they'd better find a better poster child than Tookie Williams. They've got hundreds to choose from.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>But the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not the law of the State of California. I understand why you are oppossed to the death penalty, cmpaley, and I do understand that it is a matter of religious principle for you and for many religious people.<< Actually, the Church's teaching on this matter isn't based on the religious tenents but its philosophy. It's a subtle but important distinction. And again, this isn't about making Williams a poster boy for anything. Funny how the rabid-right talks about "liberals" making emotional decisions where all the arguments for executions are based on the emotions and anger, vengeance and hatred.
Originally Posted By cstephens tiggertoo wrote: > Say who? Who says they “should†die? And why should they die? Vengeance, pure and simple. A principle any real Christian knows is evil. > A nice, cozy penal colony on the North Slope of Alaska and a room roughly the size of a cubicle. 23 hours a day, for 50+ years stuck in this hole So vengeance is evil, but torture isn't? /cs
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The monster was not reformed. He threw chemicals at guards, beat up and raped fellow inmates and even ordered the stabbing of another inmate. For this some libs nominated him for a the Nobel Peace Prize.....LOL
