Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Of course it is. To me, the rubberheads suck and are a poor excuse for entertainment, the folks troughing at the buffet ruin the park, and the lack of maintenance and entertainment at DLP for the prices they charge are very disappointing. That is my opinion, I am entitled to it. And I wish Disney would do something about it. Very frustrating to me. To others the place is nirvana. I would love it to be too. But after feeling like this for nearly 5 years, with it feeling worse this year (at least last year's hub show was mildly enjoyable unlike this year's), I have given up hope.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>And last weekend I picked up a magazine at the train station called "Donald" which is a "lifestyle magazine" aiming at a male audience, they say about themselves that it is "an irrestible and unique mix of men, fashion, music, motors and ducks": <a href="http://www.ehapa-shop.de/produ...lungen_3<<<" target="_blank">http://www.ehapa-shop.de/produ...<<</a> Sorry for being off topic. Yesterday evening I have been to the airport and got the DONALD magazine. It's great to read. Thanks for informing me about it. I must have missed Ehapa's announcement. I think you are right, that this magazine would not work in the US. I'm glad Disney Germany is much less conservative about their products.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>I think you could be right Dagobert. When I read the Trip Advisor write ups of Europa Park and Efteling, many wrote how they found them to be better than DLP. I thought they must be thrill addicts. Having been to so many this year, I now think not. DLP is still the best designed, but to me, it is subpar to EP and Efteling in many ways. As a Disney obsessive, that is really disappointing.<<< Even if that's the reason, the Disney brand is so strong over here, that ED SCA should try to make the best out of it. Germans love to go to themeparks, otherwise there wouldn't be so many.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo The DONALD magazine does sound good. It is like we used to love the Donaldson clothes that used to be out there too.
Originally Posted By u k fan I am also intrigued by the Donald magazine! Dave the only thing I want to pick you up on is this statement <<<the folks troughing at the buffet ruin the park>>> How do they ruin the park? Your statement is tarring a lot of people with the same brush. What about the families who are eating at buffets because otherwise they couldn't afford to bring their kids or those that don't want to have their wallets squeezed by Mickey? Blame the people who are intent on making every mid-price restaurant a buffet and not those who visit!!!
Originally Posted By dagobert I'm not a big fan of buffets. I'm annyoed by people who overload their plates and then so much food has to go to waste. Unfortunately that happens everyday at every hotel during breakfast and buffet resatuarnt throughout the resort. It's also annoyin that people don't look after their kids and they touch everything. I know that's overreacting, but we left Plaza Gardens after we have seen that. At least the CM told the parents about that behaviour. That's my only complaint. People who can't behave while eating can be found everywhere, even at Walt's. It's really amazing. BUT I do like the Agrabah Cafe. That's also a buffet restaurant. The food tastes good and offers a lot of vegetarian options.
Originally Posted By u k fan I think Disney needs to work on their budget offerings. Hotel Cheyenne is a perfect example of it being done right. What worries me is that budget offerings like buffets and All-Star Resorts etc. keep getting criticised (all over the web - not just here) and yet they are enabling more and more people to enjoy Disney parks, by giving them an affordable way to do it. I know it's not what's meant, but by knocking those that use the cheaper offerings it's very easy to look like a snob. Hygeine issues aside, for as long as I can remember Plaza Gardens has been a buffet and as a general rule the food is good and the theming is well done (IMHO), so does that get a free pass? Do we just complain about restaurants that have become buffets like the one at HNY? Do the guests who visit Plaza Gardens get a free pass whilst those at HNY are accused of ruining the park? They are hungry hotel guests - it's hardly their fault that it's a buffet downstairs. I want as many people as possible to enjoy a trip to a Disney resort. Is it as magical as it once was? That's up for debate and in the eyes of a first time guest I'm not sure it's relevant. If having budget offerings enables more people to visit then I'm all for it, but don't blame the guests - blame those that create those offerings and challenge them to do better!!!
Originally Posted By dagobert Ukfan, I agree with you on many things, especially that Disney should be for everyone. I'm not critizing Disney for the buffet restaurants. Most of those restaurants have always been buffet restaurants and I know it's very popular among guests. My critique is adressed towards greedy people who don't understand the concept of buffets. Going often and try whatever you want, and not overloading the plates, because of fear they will not get enough to eat. That's why I don't like buffets. Hygiene is also important and so I hate to see peole touching the food. If I haven't seen that, I'm sure we would have eaten there, because Plaza Garden is indeed a very beautiful restaurant and many people recommended it to us. I agree withDavewasbaloo that the All Star Resorts aren't that beautiful, although we enjoyed our stay at Pop Century a lot. They Cheyenne and Santa Fe clearly show what could be done with value resorts. I like the architecture of both resorts and the theming is okay.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I am also intrigued by the Donald magazine! Dave the only thing I want to pick you up on is this statement <<<the folks troughing at the buffet ruin the park>>> How do they ruin the park? Your statement is tarring a lot of people with the same brush. What about the families who are eating at buffets because otherwise they couldn't afford to bring their kids or those that don't want to have their wallets squeezed by Mickey? Blame the people who are intent on making every mid-price restaurant a buffet and not those who visit!!!<<< One drives the other....I know I am not the typical visitor, but I really resent the issue of all the buffets ruining what were good restaurants. As for tarring with the same brush? I am a social scientist, my job is to look for trends. We may have our own picadelos, but the reality is, with billions of people around the globe, 62m in the UK, we are going to have trends and simularities. Watch the amount of waste next time you are in a buffet, the environmental impact, the drive to reduce choice to save cost, and the amount of people hiding away food as well. It all turns my stomach really (even though I gave in and took the kids to see Remy - I know, I am a damn hypocrit......
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I would argue the buffets are pricing people out. Cowboy Cookout and Parkside Diner were both affordable (in DLP terms) places to eat that were good quality, you paid for what you ate, and often you could feed your family for 50% of what the buffets charge. I know what it is to be poor, I lived in a hostel and the road side as a teen. But the reality is, Disney is a luxury. Yes, they should have offerings to suit all needs and budgets, but to my mind, buffets are not the way. and if it means saving up 2 months or a year longer to get to go, so be it. At least if you got a quality product that couldn't be bettered else where, at least the sacrifices are worth while. And also I will counter your point Kiz. When we went in 1999, I was just starting my life with Sarah really. My baby brother was nearly 3 (Chris was 5 and Dan 7). My folks had little money, but we all wanted to take Nate for his 3rd Birthday (and I wanted to be there for the opening of HISTA - lol). None of us had much money and we opted for Santa Fe (as there were no value options in the area other than Disney at the time). And because we were broke, we alternated between the Cheyenne and Santa Fe for Dinner. WE were able to order and pay for what we wanted and share meals to stretch the budget. Now both of those hotels are buffet only (all the hotels are now buffet or table service only). There is no budget offering for dinner unless you go to the very crowded village (I suppose Earl of Sandwich helps here). If anything, the buffets have squeezed those on for a budget further.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo As for being a snob, you bet I am. I was raised to believe in pushing boundaries and striving for the best. Disney no longer does......
Originally Posted By dagobert The budget eateries are nearly non existent, except for the fast food restaurants and these offer really bad quality and that makes them expensive again. We usually only eat at Walt's, Agrabah Cafe and Cafe Mickey, because of the good pizzas (and yes to some degree because of the characters). Although I said that Disney should be for everyone, sometimes I have the feeling that people think it is their right to go to Disney. Although I think the price DLRP charges is fair when the park entry is included, many still think it is too expensive. Then they have to save longer, like everyone else.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, what would be better, have a higher price that you have to save longer for - but when you get there the park is fully maintained (including erupting geysers, working effects on BTM, a correctly configured tiny melanie (who when I last saw her, her mouth was near her collar bones) and full entertainment throughout the park. Or pay 10-20% less and get a lesser Disney park experience where frankly others offer better service in the market? I know i would rather pay more, even if it meant we went less often. I remember I had to wait a couple of years after my first visit and reduced my spending to aford it. But when I got there, Space Mountain was opening and the park was still amazing. It was worth the money. This year, I really regretted the amount of time we did spend with the Mouse.
Originally Posted By u k fan Dave, nothing you have said in post 49 makes me feel any differently about your statement about buffet users. I agree with the negatives about buffets, but for every person who smuggles out food how many are there that aren't? The point I'm making is the people at the buffets aren't to blame the people who create the buffets are. I understand that the typical buffet isn't cheap at Disney, but it does offer a perceived value because it's "all you can eat" and for those on a budget that's a big selling point. Eat big at lunch have a snack for dinner.... Dave, your experience sounds very much like my 2nd and 3rd DLP trips. One at Santa Fe and one at Davy Crockett. Both were all we could afford (though I had tried for Cheyenne instead of Santa Fe, but it was booked). On the Davy trip we took a car full of food for Santa Fe Gel and I used prepaid meal vouchers and ate at the hotel. We did eat at Walt's and had a character meal on her Birthday. I'm proud that I was able to pay for those trips despite only working part-time and actually get quite upset that people bash the cheaper offerings because those trips mean the world to me (more now than ever) and I don't like to think that others are denied those memories because some think it's dumbing down. Don't blame those people - blame Disney that don't seem to know how to offer quality at a cheap price!!!
Originally Posted By u k fan I don't think it's difficult to find decent budget food at DLP. When they're open Col. Hathi's is good as is Fuente Del Oro off the top of my head. Casey's Corner is a must stop for us (though I don't really like hotdogs so I have the nuggets.) I have no problem with paying for quality, I'm not arguing against that at all. All-Stars are cheaper than the Poly therefore the quality is reduced. That's not rocket science, but if people are happy to pay less money for less quality it's not up to anyone here to deny them that right!!!
Originally Posted By u k fan Dave, I still love ya You have strong views and I like to challenge them This is the most interesting debate this section has seen for years. I wonder how it would play out on WDW General!!!
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>I don't think it's difficult to find decent budget food at DLP. When they're open Col. Hathi's is good as is Fuente Del Oro off the top of my head. Casey's Corner is a must stop for us (though I don't really like hotdogs so I have the nuggets.)<<< You need to know that I'm a vegetarian and not a big fan of fast food restaurants, I hardly ever go to McDonalds or Burger King. Now we have Subway, which I really like. Fuente Del Oro was great until they dropped the vegetarian Fajitas. Now they only offer a salad, Mexican fries and nachos. Colonel Hathi offers pizzas, like Pizzeria Bella Notte, which aren't that good either. At least Cafe des Cascadeurs offer a nice Veggie Burger. That's why I prefere WDW in terms of food over DLRP. The table service restaurants at DLRP were always fine, except for Walt's last year. Our favorites are Rainforest Cafe, because there the Cms were always very helpful, Cafe Mickey and Agrabah Cafe.
Originally Posted By u k fan I've always enjoyed Hathi's though I'm not a fan of Pizzeria Bella Notte. A few years back Hathi's offered a family meal which I think was a large pizza, a couple of garlic breads and a large bottle of Coke. I can't remember if the kids got desserts. It cost around 20 euros and was a bargain (especially with an AP discount). I'd like to see more of that. I'm not a fan, but kids love Pizza Planet. I wish they'd make it more permanent - perhaps move it to TSPL. (Hey - we're back on topic)!!!
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>I'm not a fan, but kids love Pizza Planet. I wish they'd make it more permanent - perhaps move it to TSPL. (Hey - we're back on topic)!!!<<< I've only eaten once at Pizza Planet, before it became a buffet restaurant. The food wasn't bad, especially the Pizza Burger, but the restaurant looks bad. Do they still offer the Pizza Burger? Since TSPL doesn't offer any restaurants, it would be a nice addition and I would be very happy, because I want Toy Story out of Discoveryland.
Originally Posted By u k fan There's such a lot of land behind Space Mountain (assuming the 3D show's days are numbered which I think they are). Moving Pizza Planet would give them a nice big area to put something new into and yes it would make more sense added to TSPL (hopefully with TSMM - as I think we got cheaped out of that once already)!!!
