Originally Posted By leobloom >> We had a TRON (1982) viewing party a week ago. I was surprised at how well the original held up. << Funny, I have it on VHS and had never seen it before. I've tried to watch it twice and haven't been able to get through it. Maybe you had to see it in the 1980s to fully appreciate it, because it just looks like ridiculous kitsch to me (2001: A Space Odyssey allusions notwithstanding).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Not sure Leo. I read the book before the movie was realeased in 82, and fell in love. The movie put it over the top. And then I adored TRON Legacy (my fav movie probably since Gladiator maybe). So the fan boy/right time thing could come into play. But I first introduced my wife to TRON when the 25th anniversary edition came out and she liked it. And my son, LOVES it. He must have seen TRON a couple of dozen times (only the Star Wars and Back to the Future Trilogies beat the number of viewings for him). Then again, I may have influenced him a little ;-) But yes, I can understand as an adult coming upon TRON now, it may not resonate in the same way.
Originally Posted By dizkid I saw the movie Saturday morning and loved it so much. I enjoyed almost every second of it. The actor who played Sam was great and reflected the same cynical yet endearing quality that Kevin had in the first movie. The story line of tron's turn to the dark side as rinzler was so awesome it made my brain leak happy juice. The thing I could have done without was the whole isose backstory. This story didn't need that sort of crutch to explain why clu came to power, all it needed was the explananation that clu saw Kevin as imperfect so he got rid of him. On the same subject of isose, I had expected olivia wildes character to be more cold and robotic and less manic and dreamy. I thought both the tournement scenes were amazing and totally awesome. I have to say the one thing that made this movie so good for me was the score by daft punk.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>This story didn't need that sort of crutch to explain why clu came to power, all it needed was the explananation that clu saw Kevin as imperfect so he got rid of him. On the same subject of isose, I had expected olivia wildes character to be more cold and robotic and less manic and dreamy.<<< Dizkid, I really think you would get a lot out of reading TRON Betrayal. The Isos are key to the story arc. It showed that A/I was developing, or perhaps evolution. Species were creating themselves, not a user creation (or is it evolution vs creationism or is it proof that the User only creates some things and there is a stronger force out there?). It was this inability to create perfection, the idea of a naturally occuring phenomenon that went against CLU's programming. And it was because of this that Quorra was artistic and philosophical rather than wholly logic based. The issue with Kevin is that CLU, TRON, ZEUS et al believed in him. But he was struggling to juggle running ENCOM (which he did not enjoy), being a husband, father and developing the new system. He struggled to balance it all, and disappointed everyone that relied on him. He created CLU to help sort the situation out, but when Kevin's wife had complications in pregnancy, his time on the grid shortened (and the ISOS coming in also created other stability problems). When Kevin's wife died, he rarely went on the grid so he could be with Sam, also he stopped developing games for ENCOM. There was a fight between CLU and Kevin, and it led to him being trapped. This is when TRON fought CLU and lost.
Originally Posted By dizkid Following post is on other Tron board too… One reason I loved this movie so much is that it is one of the first movies I have seen in a long time that I really felt like the creators were really trying to go along with Joseph Campbells "A Heroes Journey" theory. Although at many points the steps are mismatched I thought I would try and put together the steps with their counterparts in the movie. The Call to Adventure- Alan comes to Sam and tells him about his father and the page he recieves. Alan also asks Sam to try and save ENCOM. Refusal of the Call- Sam refuses to try and save ENCOM and dismisses the page as a coincidence only eventually going to the arcade out of curiosity. Supernatural Aid- Sam is scanned by the computer. The Crossing of the First Threshold- Sam leaves the arcade and enters the grid. The Belly of the Whale- Sam is captured by the Black Guard on the Recognizer. The Road of Trials- Sam is forced to compete in the disc wars and lightcycle battles The Meeting with the Goddess- Quorra, last heroine of the resistance (ie the Warrior Princess), saves Sam and takes him to his father. Woman as the Temptress- Gem meets with Sam and takes him to Zuse where he is betrayed and nearly is killed. Atonement with the Father- Kevin realizes that Sam is right, and he can no longer remain a casual observer while Clu takes over the grid and the real world. Apothesis- Sam and Quorra return from their near death experience at the club wiser and with the intention to get back Kevin's identity disc. The Ultimate Boon- Sam recaptures the identity disc from Clu before he can use it to conquer earth. Refusal of the Return- Kevin realizes he should not return to the earth so he switches his disc with Quorra's disc so she and Sam can return safely. The Magical Flight- in order to protect the disc the trio engage in a light-jet dog-fight to get to the light. Rescue from Without- Sam reaches the light and leaves, but not without his partner Quorra. The Crossing of the Return Threshold- Sam returns to the real world. Master of the Two Worlds- Sam downloads the grid onto a chip he can control, making him the master of the grid. He also tells Alan he is going to be taking back control of ENCOM, although not making him master of earth it does establish that Sam is now the master of his own life rather than being reckless with it. Freedom to Live- Sam and Quorra now are on their path to the future, which while they cannot be sure of they now have their own inner-control. Many of you will recognize this same arch occurring in almost all great heroic stories, such as Star Wars and the Lord of the Rings. The heroes journey is very much based on the story of Hercules as well as other ancient Greek myths. It is great to see that the comprehension of it still alive in Hollywood where so much of what we see nowadays is built on unimaginative ideas.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ Can we keep the discussion of the plot in the spoilers thread please. Thanks. - Anatole
Originally Posted By dizkid ^^i didnt think this thread was a no spoiler zone, didnt say anything bout it in any previous posts. But ill be sure to make sure that it's ok before posting spoilers again.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 Thx. I haven't seen it yet because it hasn't opened in the country where I live.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I tried to watch the original last night, and after falling asleep several times during it, I finally gave up. To a modern 'user', the plot is just really hard to follow. The way that people interact with computers now is so different than than back then, that it makes it really hard to follow a lot of what is going on. The explaination of the whole computer/real world stuff wasn't very clear until a decent way into the film, so the scenes leading up to that were really confusing to me. There were also a lot of computer characters who were never really named or explained, and it was tough to really pick up on what they were doing. After watching the new one, the original does make more sense (granted, it's been quite a while since I last saw the original). Strangely, the original is explained better in the new one than in the original. They did a really good job of catching the audience up to speed on what they need to know, without feeling forced about it. I'm seeing the new one again tonight, so we'll see if it's any different on a repeat viewing!
Originally Posted By dizkid I saw the original for the first time since I was five two weeks ago and was surprised how much I liked it. It was interesting to me to see all the things that would have been considered the best tech then that is now commonplace. One of the ones that really was very interesting was the touch screen desk at ENCOM I can't imagine how cool it must have been to see something like that back when the film first came out.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> One of the ones that really was very interesting was the touch screen desk at ENCOM I can't imagine how cool it must have been to see something like that back when the film first came out.<<< It made me very excited for the future. The closest we got back in 1982 was table top pacman, space invaders and Donkey Kong.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Here's my review...be warned, it's not very enthusiastic. I walked out of “Tron: Legacy” IMAX 3D and realized that I felt the same way as I did walking out of the theatre 20 some years ago after having watched Tron. Some great special effects, but a poorly executed story and a terrible script. The special effects in Tron: Legacy are terrific. The environments of /’the grid’ are well executed, the machines are seamless, the costumes have been given a cool upgrade -- yeah, everything looks great. But CGI effects have come a long way since 1982, and these are nowhere near the industry changing effects that were in the original “Tron” – Not by a long shot. And in this day and age, where even TV shows have special effects shots, it’s just not dazzling enough to sustain this movie. As I recall, much of the original machinery and gadgets are here from the original movie. With 20+ years of special effects wizardry some are improved – some not. In the original “Tron,” the light cycles are introduced, and I seem to recall this fantastic wide shot of the ‘playing area.’ We are also see that deadly trail that the cycles leave behind – which becomes a permanent wall. Ride into it – and you’re dead. Game Over. With Tron: Legacy, that same sequence was so convoluted and confusing, that I wasn’t even sure what I was supposed to be looking at. Some of the plot points were just weird. Kevin Flynn, as played by Jeff Bridges, just comes across as a mind-numbed jerk. He hasn’t seen his kid in 25 years, and what does he do? Hugs him for a second, has a three sentence conversation with the young man, and then prepares a dinner with suckling pig and green beans. What the heck is that all about? Where do get pork in the grid? Then after a quick three sentence exchange, Bridges declares ‘It’s time for bed.’ You’re kidding me. I could picture a montage sequence where Flynn and his son pull an ‘all-nighter’ and catch up on the 20 years of life they’ve lost. As it is in Tron: Legacy, there’s very little reason to care about this father and son relationship. The various ‘young’ Jeff Bridges characters – Clu, Tron and Abednego or whatever – are kind of well done – they have a bit of that creepy ‘Polar Express’ look and while the effort of re-creating a younger Jeff Bridges is appreciated, the rest of the fx are so crisp and clear, that it just stuck out and came across as a bit odd. And there are flaws from the first movie that infiltrate the second one. I remember in the original ‘Tron’ – Bruce Boxleitner’s computerized doppelganger is in ‘the grid’ and almost gets off-ed. The girl computer program Yori (Cindy Morgan – whatever happened to her) saves him, and they take a moment to hug. They hug? Computer programs love each other? Even in Tron: Legacy, when we reach ‘the grid’ and the computer program elements are humanized, they seem to run the gamut of emotions – except humor. Olivia Wilde’s character Quorra smiles, flirts, frowns, and even poses sexily on a chaise lounge, and yet – she doesn’t seem to find anything funny or ironic. And what is up with Michael Sheen’s fey cane carrying fop? He was funny, but seemed he had been cast in the wrong movie. I half expected him to say “Does this grid make you horny baby, does it?” Speaking of which who’s the other swishy guy with the clear plastic facemask – and what’s he doing in this movie? Sam Flynn (Garrett Hedlund) gives it all he has, but again, from an acting perspective, he isn’t given much in the way of a script. With lines like “Get down below, the bermstrums are coming!” -- where just a wave and a gesture would be enough. The guys who wrote the script both worked on ‘Lost’ which I suppose gave them some prestige. But it just didn’t work. Most of it is over-written. One of the biggest aspects in any movie is that you have to care about the characters on the screen. I didn’t care about any of them. Sam Flynn just seemed like a spoiled jerk. Bruce Boxleitner’s character in the real world looks tired and / or bored. And can anyone explain why the young Sam has a movie poster of ‘Tron’ in his 1989 bedroom? How is that possible? Didn’t Doc Brown warn us of the repurcussions of such a paradox. Overall, I give ‘Tron: Legacy’ a 2 out of 5. Sure, the effects are fine. But I didn’t for one minute believe that Jeff Bridges and the rest of the cast weren’t standing in front of a green screen. I don’t think David Warner could save this.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ The Tron video game was the most popular of its time. The poster was based on a world where the game was very famous, hence the line of action figures. Computer programs can't get humor, it's one of the dividing lines between human intelligence and AI. Read Godel, Escher, Bach for a more indepth explanation why. Also you probably should have posted a spoilers alert before going into the plot. I probably should have too, but I tried to be vague enough in my review as to not give away anything of the story. - Anatole
Originally Posted By dizkid Young Sam doesn't have a poster for Tron the movie he has one for the fiction version of the Tron videogame i.e. The one we see in the Arcade later. I suggest maybe a second viewing to get it all in and response that this movie is not perfect but if you take it for what is you can still enjoy it.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Sorry about not posting a spoiler alert!! Thanks for the reminder Anatole. Dizkid, thanks for clarifying on the Tron poster -- makes sense. And yeah, computers don't 'do' humor - okay. Then, explain Michael Sheen's character -- he's 'doing' humor. He's making jokes.
Originally Posted By dizkid I don't think that computers don't get humor. I mean clearly Quorra does (we see her laughing at stuff at many points intye movie) I just assume that some programs are like people, not funny.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ *** Spoilers *** Quorra is also an Iso, a new evolving form of life that goes outside the constraints the normal programs have. She also takes physical form when she comes back to the world with Sam, so she is different from a normal program. As far as Michael Sheen's character, many posters here have said they felt his character was too over the top and out of place, I hazard his campy acting is part of it. - Anatole
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo As I have written elsewhere, thanks for the review Jim. Thanks for the thorough review. I think there are some valid points. I do wonder if my boyhood adoration of the original has tempered my perspective or if the real world has made me want to get wrapped up in the ride of it all and enjoy mys...elf. Or perhaps reading the graphic novel of the story bridging the two films first added to my enjoyment. It is funny, I do agree with a number of your points (especially Sheen's character), but at the same time, I feel the film is worthy of at least 4 stars. And it is one of the few films I really want to see again. Star Wars has a poor script, plot holes and some dubious acting too, but it is still my fav film ever. I suppose I am ok if not everything is Schindler's List or the Godfather. But I enjoyed your perspective (and deep down I agree, but I guess I too can be a pixie duster at times ;-)
Originally Posted By dizkid I think I may be alone in this camp (get it "camp"), but I really thought Sheen did a good job. He was freaky and weird and crazy. I would associate him with the Riddler from Batman. And if it does turn out that his character isn't dead then I think he could make a really good villain for a sequel.
