Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I don't know why you care if Disney goes forward with Tron. Is it hurting you somehow?>> What are you, like 10 years old? What an ignorant statement to make regarding a discussion about studio business practices and decisions regarding profitability of franchised properties. <<Has the DVD Release been profitable? Yes.>> You don't know that. I don't know that. Until you can show me what it cost Disney to develop, distribute, and market those five different DVD sets for T:L, you have no idea what kind of profit has been made so far, if any. <<I don't judge how I feel about a movie based on how successful it was at the box office.>> Good for you. But that's not the focus of this thread. We are focusing on the financials here. Your personal views or my personal views regarding the alleged entertainment value of the film are not relevant. <<But it was FAR from being a financial loss.>> No one here stated that Disney lost their shirts on T:L. But given the steep production and distribution costs for TRON, Disney probably broke even on the box. Even if they did turn a profit, it was very modest at best. But box office performance is not the only factor when deciding a franchise's fate. Studios tend to care more about the aftermarket than simply the theatrical release receipts, and for good reason. Take a look at Pixar's Cars franchise. Cars was not one of Pixar's highest grossing films at the box, but the toy sales have been astronomical. That's the main reason Cars 2 was produced. The Cars aftermarket is a platinum mine on steroids. As for TRON: Legacy, its aftermarket has been a financial turkey. The toys and merch didn't sell and were deeply discounted after the holidays through clearance sales. The video game didn't sell, and it's studio, Propaganda Games, was dissolved by Disney and its employees laid off in January. And the DVDs are not selling as well as many expected, given the solid pre-orders prior to release and the variety of having five different combo sets available for purchase. Selling fewer than 785,000 copies the first week is not a good figure, even if you think it is. Tangled sold almost 3.5 million copies its first week. Star Trek sold over 3.5 million copies its first week. But TRON sells less than 785,000 copies? And this is a success? Hardly. At least half or more of a DVDs total sales come from the first week of release. This means TRON: Legacy will sell no more than 1.5 million copies total, and most likely, not even that many. Given the higher DVD development and distribution costs to create those five different DVD sets, that projected total is too low to be considered a success, let alone profitable. Unlike other Disney franchises, TRON: Legacy is simply not a money maker. The DVD sales are going to be what makes or breaks this franchise, moving forward. And if the DVDs don't pick up and start selling better than this, I don't see the sequel getting its production green light. Whether or not you choose to accept it, TRON is not a widely popular franchise, nor is it a profitable one. Disney would be taking a huge financial gamble if they continue with the TRON franchise at this point. As cheesybaby pointed out earlier, the weak DVD sales are not a positive indicator that Disney would be doing so.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<But it was FAR from being a financial loss.>> Because you say so? Production budget was at least $170 mil, P&A likely >$150 mil, worldwide gross was $400 mil. Am I a hater saying it was a flop? No; I am a fan of the movie but financially most likely it was a toss-up. But saying it was "FAR from a financial loss" doesn't make it true, even when you use ALL CAPS.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Excellent point, Tony. Technically, 20K is science fiction, but not in the sense of "modern" science fiction we tend to equate with films like Star Trek and Blade Runner. Not to mention, how long ago was 20K made? Over 56 years ago! Disney was a different studio back when 20K was made. Much has changed in the nature of live action films which Disney now produces. And more importantly, what have they done since 20K that demonstrates science fiction is a genre they can command? I've got nothing.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Because you say so? Production budget was at least $170 mil, P&A likely >$150 mil, worldwide gross was $400 mil.>> Exactly, cheesybaby. Production was reported at $170 mil. I've read that distribution and promotion costs ran at least $120 mil for just the domestic market. Foreign costs were obviously additional. It's quite likely that total costs for T:L ran around $320 mil, if not more. Since Walt Disney Pictures and their distribution group wouldn't receive more than 80% of box office receipts (and more likely received even less than that), they would basically break even on a $400 mil worldwide take with total costs at $320 mil. I highly doubt that TRON: Legacy turned a profit in the theaters, which is a big problem for the franchise, given how badly the consumer aftermarket has done. If the DVD sales aren't stellar, this franchise is done.
Originally Posted By Tony C I found this interesting. But here is a listing of the highest budgeted films. As you will see the Mouse appears quite a few times: <a href="http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/records/allbudgets.php" target="_blank">http://www.the-numbers.com/mov...gets.php</a>
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Written like a true TRON fanboy, Doug<< Whuh, what? All kidding aside, I can't help but wonder if the marketing wizards at Disney know something the rest of us don't know. They seem to be willing the third film to happen, despite obvious signs that it would be, uh, financially unwise. Is it possible that there is a market segment that really responds well enough to TRON to keep this franchise alive? Speaking purely anecdotally, I have been surprised to see a number of very young kids (boys) wearing TRON clothes. We know statistically that the merch hasn't done well, so it's a head scratcher. The TRON animated TV series may tell the ultimate truth about the viability of this franchise. Meanwhile, hope springs eternal in some quarters for another return to the grid. (And, parenthetically, is there any hard evidence that Disney was seeking Alice-scale numbers for TRON?)
Originally Posted By utahjosh I ALMOST bought the movie. Held it in my hands. (I saw it, poorly screened, at a dollar theater - and liked it.) Went with Monsters Inc on blu-ray instead.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<The TRON animated TV series may tell the ultimate truth about the viability of this franchise.>> That will be very interesting to see. I'm a fan myself, so I (and my son) will be there, but I will be very curious to see how big the audience is. Odd that they planned it so that episodes won't start airing until 2012 - even if the movie had been a massive hit, more than one year after release would still have squandered a lot of its momentum... If kids dig the TV series and it becomes a Clone Wars-type series for Disney, perhaps that could "grow" the franchise. We shall see.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<All kidding aside, I can't help but wonder if the marketing wizards at Disney know something the rest of us don't know.>> ROTFLMAO!!! You have got to be kidding me, right? This is Disney! "Marketing wizards"? Like in the wildly successful "Sorcerer's Apprentice"? Oh, snap!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<The TRON animated TV series may tell the ultimate truth about the viability of this franchise.>> This is shaping up to be a classic case of M. Night Syndrome. You know, where the animated series is infinitely better than the full-blown feature length live action crapfest. I have hope for the TV series. But if the Burbank execs get infected with the M. Night Syndrome virus, they'll tank the franchise in the theaters with a crappy sequel to Legacy. Been there, done that. <<Meanwhile, hope springs eternal in some quarters for another return to the grid.>> For the love of Mickey, please give us a different director and screenwriter(s)!! I'm begging you, Disney! If a sequel is inevitable, hire some talent who's up to the task this time!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<(And, parenthetically, is there any hard evidence that Disney was seeking Alice-scale numbers for TRON?)>> It comes from personal sources I know inside the Disney Empire. Ditto for someone else on these boards who posts by the name of leemac. The pixie dust addicts in Burbank expected Avatar numbers. They're addicts, so we rightfully ignore their prognostications. But the more reasonable execs were truly expecting Alice numbers. Seriously. They saw the TRON feeding frenzy at ComicCon and WonderCon's marketing stunt at Justin Herman Plaza, and fully believed that another billion dollar film was within reach. And truthfully, I almost believed they were correct in that rationale. I think if TRON: Legacy had done at least half of Alice's numbers, then a sequel might have been justified. But that missing $100 mil is enough to pull the plug, especially since the consumer aftermarket was such a flop.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I ALMOST bought the movie. Held it in my hands. (I saw it, poorly screened, at a dollar theater - and liked it.) Went with Monsters Inc on blu-ray instead.>> Good call. Something with a sense of hope, better dialogue, and more vibrant color. Now you can skip the Prozac prescription from the nearby pharmacy. 8^D
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Sorry that I offended you... buddy. Seriously, you guys are right. I was out of line. Back on topic.>> No worries. It's all in good natured heated discussion, like the world is coming to an end. That's what makes Disney discussion boards so thrilling!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<If kids dig the TV series and it becomes a Clone Wars-type series for Disney, perhaps that could "grow" the franchise. We shall see.>> M. Night Syndrome. Last Airbender in reverse. Disney will screw it up. Like always.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<The pixie dust addicts in Burbank expected Avatar numbers. They're addicts, so we rightfully ignore their prognostications. But the more reasonable execs were truly expecting Alice numbers. Seriously.>> Which is why I am so surprised we haven't heard more about what this means for Sean Bailey. I mean, politically, is he done? Black Hole? What exactly is in the live action pipeline at the studio (besides Pirates 8 and the Disney Channel crap)? All this chatter on the boards about huge expectations for Tron and the Sean Bailey era, and then,... just total silence on that front. Has Bailey green-lit anything?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<All this chatter on the boards about huge expectations for Tron and the Sean Bailey era, and then,... just total silence on that front. >> I know! The silence is deafening. And then Disney pulls the bonehead stunt of the decade by letting DreamWorks steal Guillermo del Toro away from them. ARGH! What were they thinking? Is Bailey to blame for that debacle as well? Or is this due to Rich Ross incompetence? I wish leemac would chime in here. "Paging Mr. Lee MacDonald. White courtesy phone for Lee MacDonald..."
