Originally Posted By skinnerbox Let's take another look at the sales figures for the first two weeks. During its first week of release, T:L sold just under 785,000 copies of the regular DVD. Blu-Ray.com reported that 68% of sales for all formats was for Blu-Ray. That would equal 2.4 million copies or less for all formats. NOTE: I don't know what the percentage is for digital copies such as iTunes sales, which is part of the "all formats" figure. So I've been assuming that Blu-Ray and regular DVD equals "all formats" for these calculations. Obviously, Blu-Ray sales figures are lower than what I've been estimating, which would make the total sales figure lower as well. OK. T:L was #1 in Blu-Ray and #2 overall its first week. The second week? T:L dropped to #3 in Blu-Ray and #4 overall. The Numbers is reporting that about 266,000 regular DVD copies were sold during the second week. That means, if the percentage of Blu-Ray sales did not change from week #1 to week #2, and remained constant at 68%, then T:L sold 800,000 copies or less in all formats during its second week, for a combined total of no more than 3.2 million copies so far. As for week #3, that will be even worse. T:L was hovering around #12 in Blu-Ray and #23 overall, and most likely ended the week outside the Top Ten. In the first two days of week #4, it's fallen even further. It currently sits at #27 in Blu-Ray and #46 overall, and will probably end the week outside the Top Twenty if not the Top Thirty. Only about 3 million copies at the most have been sold, for all formats. That's very weak. Tangled came out one week earlier, and has sold 4.8 million in regular DVDs alone. About one-third of total sales have been Blu-Ray, which means Tangled has sold about 6.5 million copies total, give or take for digital formats. At the rate the sales for T:L are declining, it won't come anywhere close to Tangled's final sales figure, given that Tangled still remains in the Top Ten at week #5. And contrary to what others have posted, there's not a ton of profit to be made in the higher priced collector sets. Retailers always take half of the MSRP, even when the MSRP isn't charged. For a disc set that costs $50 MSRP, retailers are getting $25. Plus, the disc manufacturers also get their slice of the pie, for production, packaging, and distribution. Disney makes a pretty penny, yes. But they don't get every single dime from that total sales figure, just as they don't get 100% of the box office receipts. Disney's take in DVD sales is significantly lower than the total. The TRON franchise is not strong, no matter what the fans choose to believe. Disney would be smarter to focus attention on their Marvel properties, which has far broader audience appeal and better growth potential. TRON is simply too narrow of a niche to be more profitable than it currently is.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I found some additional info, and need to tweak my previous calculations. First week of release, Blu-Ray accounted for 68% of total sales in all formats. About 940,000 Blu-Ray sets were sold, making the total number sold in all formats approx. 1.4 million. T:L fell from #2 overall in the first week to #4 overall in the second week. Roughly 266,000 copies sold in regular DVD format, and more Blu-Ray copies were sold than regular DVD. If the percentage were the same from week #1 to week #2, then fewer than 800,000 copies total were sold in all formats, given that digital downloads like iTunes are not accounted for in these calculations. Week #3, which ended this past Sunday, saw T:L drop even further, probably out of the Top Ten altogether; it sat at #12 in Blu-Ray and #23 overall for the latter half of week #3. And as of today, almost mid-way through week #4, T:L has dropped to #28 in Blu-Ray and #43 overall, with the Amazon sale of The Criterion Collection on Blu-Ray beginning this week. Given these recent numbers, it's not difficult to conclude that 90% of T:L sales have already happened, during the first three weeks. Fewer than 3 million copies total have been sold. And given the current rankings, I doubt that T:L will even reach 3 million for its entire release. As a comparison, Iron Man 2 sold 5 million copies in Blu-Ray and DVD combined during its first week of release. T:L sold less than 30% as many copies during its first week as Iron Man 2 did during its first week, last fall. Seriously... why would Disney want to continue with the TRON franchise, given these numbers? Why wouldn't Disney want to do something like Stark Expo in Tomorrowland, instead of a TRON E-Ticket for twice the price? It's all about the numbers. And TRON: Legacy's numbers just don't measure up.
Originally Posted By brotherdave Perhaps they don't measure up, but a Tron themed attraction would look mighty cool! Remember: You don't necessarily have to have a "hit" movie to have a "hit" theme park attraction! And the Tron "look" just has "theme park attraction" written all over it. I personally could care less if a Tron 3 is made or not (though I wouldn't mind one if done well), but a full fledge "E"-Ticket Tron dark and/or thrill ride DOES interest me very, very much!
Originally Posted By dizkid >> When all is said and done, TL will get it's sequel. As stated many times before, Disney is looking at the potential of this becoming a franchise. It's got all the right ingredients to become bigger than what it is now. The gimmicks are there. The quirkiness of the TRON world is there. Disney will take that chance to grow this. And well they should.<< I'm on Team Shockwave.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<I found some additional info,>> Sources for these numbers? Not challenging your sources, I just want to look at them.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Everybody seems to share the same info, cheesybaby. Blu-Ray's web site is good, but it's difficult to get the individual articles with these figures without doing Google searches. Box Office Junkie is using The Numbers data and I believe Blu-Ray's data as well, plus making their own guesstimates. And there were some Hollywood Reporter articles I read, but I don't know if they had these figures. I know that Blu-Ray uses the Nielsen VideoScan First Alert data, which is sometimes listed on Nielsen's blog, nielsenwire. That's where I got the "68% of all formats sold were for Blu-Ray" info for T:L's first week. Another article mentioned that, as with the first week, more Blu-Ray discs were sold the second week than other formats, but I don't remember where I read that. And it didn't give a percentage for the second week like Blu-Ray did for the first. Knowing the sales figures for the regular DVDs, which comes from The Numbers, and knowing what the percentage is for Blu-Ray format sales that week, which comes from blu-ray.com, you can extrapolate what the overall sales are for that week, but the figure will be higher than the actual total, since digital download is also a part of the all formats figure. I realize that my math has been off for some of my calculations, because of the different sources I'm using and lack of focus when keeping track of all these numbers when extrapolating. Not to mention that there have been conflicts with the data guessing, which I'm just now catching. Box Office Junkie guesstimated 940,000 Blu-Ray sales for the first week, which is what I used to calculate the 1.4 million total copies from, given the 68% figure from Blu-Ray. Well, that's not correct, if The Numbers is correct in reporting 785,000 non Blu-Ray sales. Those two numbers combined are about 1.7 million, and 68% of 1.7 million is 1.17 million, not 940,000. I'm guessing Box Office Junkie got their 940,000 number incorrect, and that the actual figure lies somewhere between 1.17 million and 1.7 million. Bottom line, though, is how this release will do in total sales, week after week after week. Half-way through the third week, T:L did drop out of the top ten on Blu-Ray, and dropped in to the top thirty for all formats. This week, the fourth week, it's even lower. Right now, blu-ray.com has the two disc T:L set listed at #20, and #37 overall for all formats. After the first two weeks, TRON slipped out of the top ten completely, even for Blu-Ray, which does not bode well for future sales. The momentum has been lost, and DVDs rarely, if ever, recover. No matter how many discs and digital downloads have been sold, TRON is no where near Iron Man or Star Trek sales levels, and probably never will be. And this is the street which the Disney bean counters live on. To make up for the mediocre performance in the theaters and with consumer products, Disney wanted to see boffo DVD sales, in order to justify moving forward. Well... the first week was solid, and the second week OK. But by the third week, the sales fell off dramatically. And now, they're almost absent. T:L needs to pull a miracle out of its behind with a serious spike in DVD sales, if this franchise has a prayer. The fact that no announcement for the third film has been made, even though the DVD is in its fourth week of sales, isn't good. If the sales were "strong enough" during the first two weeks, I think we would have heard something by now.
Originally Posted By shockwave Skinnerbox, You think it's just the wild musings of TRONites, but you're not seeing the potential behind what TRON could become, the potential that Disney sees in it. The key word here is "potential." You're focusing on current sales performance, which though not stellar, have not resulted in a loss for Disney. Disney is trying to build this brand. And I can see exactly why. TRON has the unique gimmicks that resonate with young males. The unique uniforms. Discs. Light cycles. Light jets. The Grid. Just as the lightsaber helps propel Star Wars and transforming robots propels Transformers, these gimmicks can propel this franchise beyond it's current market value by growing the young male audience. Had T:L been a flop, I would be inclined to agree with you. Why build something that loses you money? But Disney took a chance, took a thirty year-old niche property and threw it out there. Enough fans bit. Not Harry Potter number fans. Not Star Wars number fans. But enough fans to revisit the TRON world. Production costs for a third TRON movie will be far less than T:L. Daft Punk has a massive following. The animated series, yet another marketing tool to capture the imaginations of a new young male generation, is on the way. To me, it's a no brainer. It's done well enough to warrant revisiting.
Originally Posted By shockwave Oh, and you forgot to include the revenue Disney generated through sales of both the soundtrack and it's newly released remix. It is the first score soundtrack to debut in the Top 10 in five years ("Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith That's huge.
Originally Posted By shockwave From recent interview: "The key to the question about another Tron film may be in a comment Joseph Kosinskiu made to Empire while explaining that the upcoming animated series Tron: Uprising will fill in some backstory gaps: 'Legacy played really well to people in their twenties and thirties, but it actually didn’t bring in kids. So we hope Uprising will bring a new generation of fans in the same way that Clone Wars has brought a new generation to Star Wars.' In other words, Disney was counting on Tron Legacy to be a mad merchandising hit — see all the toys and other licensed stuff that was produced — and those dollars may not have materialized yet. The home video release could help, as families that didn’t want to fork out for high 3D ticket prices might see the movie now, leading to kids wanting Tron stuff. If the younger generation can be brought on board, then you can bet a third film will happen quickly." Like I said, playing to the gimmicky potential of TRON is Disney's goal now.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox OK, I stand corrected. I hate these data sites. Nielsen (via blu-ray.com) is reporting a #10 slot for T:L for week #3, with 50% of sales in Blu-Ray. I guess the first part of the third week was spent higher on the top ten, which balanced out with the #12 and #13 rankings in the latter part of the week. That being said... week #4 is losing ground on week #3, with T:L being no where near the Top Ten. Each week has been worse than the previous week so far. Looks like the vast majority of sales have probably already happened. <<Like I said, playing to the gimmicky potential of TRON is Disney's goal now.>> Really? I thought it was to market franchises that are profitable. TRON is not profitable. And I doubt Disney would be willing to pour hundreds of millions more into continuing the franchise on the hope that the "gimmick" will eventually catch on, down the road. As for TRON: Uprising... that doesn't come out until next year, correct? What makes you think that anyone will still be interested in this franchise by that time, except for a small group of adult fanboys and kids watching Disney cable TV? If Disney is going to green light the third TRON film, it will do so based on current DVD sales this month, and not the ratings of a future animated TV show debuting next year. Disney doesn't "need" TRON to tap into the teen fanboy market, not since acquiring Marvel.
Originally Posted By shockwave Disney would be foolish to announce a third movie so soon. I think, despite Disney's woeful marketing for some ventures, they are going about it the right way in releasing that animated TV series targeting children first. I think there's more potential in TRON than the Marvel properties that remain untapped. I mean, they're remaking X-men and Daredevil as well. They're running out of heroes to feature. Avengers will be the big hurrah, and you'll see a movie audience exhausted by the caped hero genre. And I'm sure Disney has no problem focusing on both Marvel movies and their own brands, like TRON and The Black Hole. I said it before, in presentation, TRON is unique, it's quite niche. It's gimmicks galore. Why would Disney want to simply ignore that?
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<I think there's more potential in TRON than the Marvel properties that remain untapped. I mean, they're remaking X-men and Daredevil as well. They're running out of heroes to feature.>> I'm not a comic book fan, but Marvel has something like 5,000 characters. That's why Disney bought them. Disney paid billions for the Marvel properties. They are going to develop and market and promote the crap out of them. There will be multiple Marvel franchises for decades to come.
Originally Posted By shockwave Just like only the big name characters move comics off the shelves, the same can be said for movies. Who wants to see a movie about, say, Carnage? The Juggernaut? etc, etc. All the big names already have movies, and again, viewer fatigue for caped super hero movies, particularly with DC also throwing their Batman, Green Lantern, etc into the ring, is going to settle in. Not to say Marvel has no legs. There's still plenty of money to be made. But TRON allows Disney to take a chance at creating something huge. The TRON property could peter out and disappear, for sure. But if played right, I think the potential for TRON to hit major franchise status, in this techy day and age, with the kind of gimmicks it has, could be huge. All I'm saying is, it IS worth a shot by Disney. If it doesn't pan out, as you say, there's always Marvel, Pixar, etc.
Originally Posted By relapse I'm definitely agreeing with shockwave, Disney might have bought the Marvel characters but IMO superhero themed movies are definitely on the downturn. I just see Marvel as a resource that is brink of being tapped out to the point of where they are already trying to reboot the X-Men and Spiderman franchises. Thor and The X-men reboot will give us an accurate picture of whether the superhero genre still has any real money making life left.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<That being said... week #4 is losing ground on week #3, with T:L being no where near the Top Ten.>> Skinner, I am not saying that T:L is a huge money machine. Far from it. But you overstate your case at every turn. "no where near the Top Ten"? For the week ended May 1, blu-ray.com puts T:L at #4 on their chart. #4. Yes, The-Numbers puts T:L at #12 for its 4th week for DVD-only sales, but since when is #12 "nowhere near" the Top 10? blu-ray.com still says T:L is selling 54% Blu-Rays and 46% DVDs. It is the only title in their Top 10 to be selling more Blu-Rays than DVDs. Source: <a href="http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6329" target="_blank">http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6329</a>
Originally Posted By skinnerbox OK, you win. I'm caving. I was wrong. I admit it. I thought the sales were worse than they apparently are. Good on T:L for finding some strength to come back from week #3. For those of you who desperately want TR3N made, I hope you get it. I still don't believe you will, but whatever. It's not my money. (Olivia Wilde is ultra hot, so that will be it's only saving grace, as far as I'm concerned.) Just please, Disney... DO NOT GIVE IT TO KOSINSKI!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> PoP at least broke even, unlike Sorcerer's Apprentice. That was the stinker; big bomb domestic and foreign. What the heck was Disney thinking?<<< I really loved Sorceror's Apprentice, as well as TRON Legacy, whereas I did not like Toy Story 3 - sadly the box office does the talking. But for me, I like the movies Disney has been making lately (unlike what they are doing to their parks).
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I really loved Sorceror's Apprentice>> I just watched that for the first time, earlier this week. (StarzHD has it for free in On Demand for the next few weeks.) OMG. What the heck was Dick Cook thinking? Unbelievably bad. Alfred Molina and Jay Baruchel were actually good. But Nick Cage was dreadful! And the story development was very weak. "Prime Merlinian"? Seriously... how much dope was being passed around during that development meeting. Sorcerer's Apprentice deserved its box office failure. It could have been so much more. Just like TRON: Legacy could have been. I'm seriously questioning your taste in films now, Dave.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo go for it. For the record, I also like Pearl Harbour, Titanic, and Avatar. My fav films include Star Wars, TRON, Princess Bride, Schindler's List, Singing in the Rain, It's a Wonderful Life, Citizen Kane and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures. I like my film in the main to be fun. My life is too serious to see a serious film (Schindler's List was released before all the muck hit the fan). I do not like Finding Nemo much, nor Toy Story 3. Treasure Planet is my fav animated feature (as are Cars and Monster's Inc), and I think Shawshank Redemption, while good, is the most overrated film on celluloid. go ahead and rip away.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I don't dislike most of the films in your longer list. But some of the other choices? Uh, OK. No ripping necessary. Different strokes for different folks.
